Are New IND 5 Cartridge Game changers ? share what it's like? guys w/ Out State

[phylodog]

Using HPR you still will get the "crack" but it reduced...M4 doesn't make his .308 sound like a .22

I'm well aware and mentioned that upthread.

 

[d80hunter]

Yup people claiming to shoot sub MOA...I put in the same category as guys that claim to shoot robin hoods all the time too with their bows....happens sure, consistently...give me a break. Unless you are one of the few, which you instantly can tell these guys.

Quite different actually, so why stereotype everyone because other idiots claim to be the best at everything with every gun or bow. Some rifles perform expectionally just as some suck no matter what you do. None of rifles I own except the Bushmaster groups as well. The picture shows the 7mm-08 groups at 150 yards compared to the .450 which grouped around an inch at that range. The rifle does have a great trigger and scope and the shots where done with a bipod lying down on a field. Bench rest would be a little better yet. I consistently get results similar to this with just THAT rifle.

 

[Hookeye]

Yup people claiming to shoot sub MOA...I put in the same category as guys that claim to shoot robin hoods all the time too with their bows....happens sure, consistently...give me a break. Unless you are one of the few, which you instantly can tell these guys.

It does happen consistently, probably more to varmint hunters shooting reloads though.
You need to hang around some real rifle people and stop the BS.

 

[Hookeye]

Honestly, a 1" group at 100 aint diddly.
Not good enough for a chuck rig IMHO.

 

[Tynimiller]

To be fair fellas, my exposure to most rifle guys is at the local range, which second some folks walk into a range they blow smoke 75% hotter than before entering...so there is that. And I guess I see how some of them shoot their pistols and assume they are as efficient with their rifles...when in fact a bench rested rifle in my opinion should easily shoot 1 inch groups...it is the fellas saying they are free standing and shooting such groups...called their bluff many a time out on the range.

I know fellas out there that can though, some I swear could seriously shoot a "gnat off a cat's ***" if you gave them a chance...

 

[d80hunter]

Honestly, a 1" group at 100 aint diddly.
Not good enough for a chuck rig IMHO.

Yup, and when deer hunters start breaking out the HPR's to deer hunt this fall and want to take 300 plus yard shots , I hope no one is thinking 2 MOA is good to go....6 inches of play leaves no room for shooter error.

 

[openwell]

Yup, and when deer hunters start breaking out the HPR's to deer hunt this fall and want to take 300 plus yard shots , I hope no one is thinking 2 MOA is good to go....6 inches of play leaves no room for shooter error.

Kill zone of whitetail is large enough so that + or - six inches will put meat on the table.
1 1/2 to 3" groups should be good to go under field conditions.
Best to practice at longer ranges and use those cardboard type deer targets.
Broadside "boiler room" heart & lung-shot on a deer is a large.
YMMV but don't stay home because you can't shoot 1" groups.

 

[openwell]

Everyone should do better with these 5 cartridges.
If you didn't realize it those six and 7 pound shotguns shooting
1 to 1 1/4 oz (437gr to 547gr) have way too much recoil.
A little time at the range will show everyone can shoot better
with these rifles.
again YMMV and time will tell

 

[openwell]

BTW, just don't be one of those guys that says-
I can't shoot paper but I do fine shootin fur.
Problem is finding a range to practice @ 200 yards
or even 100 is tough. But deer deserve to be
cleanly harvested with these new tools.

 

[d80hunter]

To be fair fellas, my exposure to most rifle guys is at the local range, which second some folks walk into a range they blow smoke 75% hotter than before entering...so there is that. And I guess I see how some of them shoot their pistols and assume they are as efficient with their rifles...when in fact a bench rested rifle in my opinion should easily shoot 1 inch groups...it is the fellas saying they are free standing and shooting such groups...called their bluff many a time out on the range.

I know fellas out there that can though, some I swear could seriously shoot a "gnat off a cat's ***" if you gave them a chance...

Thanks for the explaination I understand where your coming from now.

The range isn't the best place to get ideas on shooters IMHO. Sure there are some great shooters at ranges but you also will have visitors who only get out once or twice a year and only practice off the bench. My worse memory is some guys who benched up their tactical rifles on led-sleds at the 25 yard range at Crosley. Never went any farther to my dismay.

Then you got guys like myself who can shoot in the backyard or drive nearby to private properly and practice as often as they can. It is nice to reload plinking ammo and shoot it to develop shooting form. It is much like archery or golf, your skill is proportional to the amount of practice.

Anyone who can consistently shoot 1 MOA standing offhand could make a living off doing that. I personally don't know anyone who is capable of that anyway. Types of offhand shots from worse to best; standing, kneeling, sitting, and prone. Then you have things like shooting sticks and bipod to help in the field. Lastly you have heavy gun rests positioned on a bench at ranges.

 

[d80hunter]

Kill zone of whitetail is large enough so that + or - six inches will put meat on the table.
1 1/2 to 3" groups should be good to go under field conditions.
Best to practice at longer ranges and use those cardboard type deer targets.
Broadside "boiler room" heart & lung-shot on a deer is a large.
YMMV but don't stay home because you can't shoot 1" groups.

Yes + or - 6 inches is fine for deer. My point was an example about a 2 MOA rifle at 300 yards which gets 6 inch groups. Add shooting in field conditions, no one is bringing a bench and a heavy rest to the woods, shooting more than a few inches off of where you aimed plus the + or - 6 inches of play in your rifle could possibly result in a miss or wounded deer. These are just factors to consider for long range shots Indiana hunters will get the chance to try starting this year.

Maybe I should have said know your limitations and shoot accordingly.

 

[openwell]

Call your shots"
by that I mean,
Know where your crosshairs are the Instant your rifle fires
and you'll become a better shot.
Takes practice to feel when the trigger is going to fire.
Once you master it, it even works for open-sighted rifles & handguns.
From most positions.

 

[M4Madness]

Using HPR you still will get the "crack" but it reduced...M4 doesn't make his .308 sound like a .22

Actually, I do. Lol! My SRT Arms Shadow meters somewhere between 132-136 dB with full-power ammo, while a .22LR is over 140 db unsuppresssed.

 

[Dirty Steve]

Of the 5 cartridges the .243 and 30-30 both have less practical range for deer.
They will be excellent for some. Most will handicap themselves using them.
Outfitters and hunters of antelope, which are smaller than most IN deer
recommend .270 as min. because of shot distance and wind out west.
The 30-06, 308 and 300s will offer better results and satisfaction for most.
I have taken six antelope and one mule deer in MT,
all with a 270 Win (30-06 necked down to .270 Win) and never felt under-gunned.
Any of the 5 cartridges will work well in Indiana, but why handicap yourself.
YMMV

Having knocked over several antelope and deer with a .95 to .105 gr Berger VLD from a .243 out west in Wyoming, I'm not sure who you are hunting with that is telling you a .270 is minimum. Whoever they are needs an examination. Those I have hunted with and are regular acquaintances with would not hesitate to mention anything in 6mm. I would not think twice about dropping a deer, and doing it cleanly at ranges well beyond 400 yards with the .243 that you think inept for the chore. My oldest son cleanly took his last goat at a chip shot 380 yards DRT with a 10 plus mph crosswind. No great feat for a .243 and I am not in the minority. One outfitter and western hunter I know well regularly drops goats at 800 to 900 with a lowly 6 x 270 wsm. Given your logic, that round shouldn't be viable much beyond 200-300 yards.

Dirty Steve

 

[openwell]

-Dirty Steve;
Hunting on 110 square private cattle ranch in Custer Co., MT
With a group of guys I hunt with from IN, back when antelope were plentiful.
No guides. I visited the area when a college buddy was doing graduate work
at the Research Station in Miles City. Have friends there.
243 rifles are a handicap.
Prairie like here, you really can't judge distances after a day or two.
Reference trees are usually in town or at the ranch house only.
270 and up are standard operating protocol.
Spot & stalk and get shot <300 is goal of our party.
Spend the kinda money to make the trip,
you just don't want to be handicapped more than necessary.
YMMV

 

[AboveTheBest]

Had to? Please elaborate? Even if Booner steps out, this is the most improper way of thinking ever. I suspect you were tongue in cheeking this part but incase others read this, YOU NEVER JUST GUESS on a shot...

I can think of many more improper ways of thinking...

You were correct in your assumption. I would never "have to" take a shot at that distance... Unless there was a mutant zombie deer attacking a burning orphanage, but I digress.

 

[Hookeye]

BTW, just don't be one of those guys that says-
I can't shoot paper but I do fine shootin fur.
Problem is finding a range to practice @ 200 yards
or even 100 is tough. But deer deserve to be
cleanly harvested with these new tools.

Winamac and JP have 200 yarders. Free too.
My local club (and former local club) have 100 yarders (and closer).

I can shoot a private range 5 mins from my house, but it only goes to 135 yards.
Growing up, most sportsmans clubs had a 100.

Don't see finding a range to be a problem.
Hell, drive to Bass n Bucks and shoot well past 200 (think 700 is their max?)

 

[Dirty Steve]

-Dirty Steve;
Hunting on 110 square private cattle ranch in Custer Co., MT
With a group of guys I hunt with from IN, back when antelope were plentiful.
No guides. I visited the area when a college buddy was doing graduate work
at the Research Station in Miles City. Have friends there.
243 rifles are a handicap.
Prairie like here, you really can't judge distances after a day or two.
Reference trees are usually in town or at the ranch house only.
270 and up are standard operating protocol.
Spot & stalk and get shot <300 is goal of our party.
Spend the kinda money to make the trip,
you just don't want to be handicapped more than necessary.
YMMV

Your right. The .243 is woefully inadequate beyond 200 yards. The last Quebec Labrador caribou I killed was totally safe at 395 yards.
However, he was standing at 394. Wait, that's almost 200 yards farther or double the range that the .243 is capable of killing a deer at with no wind. Of course there is no wind in northern Quebec in September.
The last time I looked in my living room I think I noticed that caribou are bigger than deer too. Must have been a miracle that killed that bull. I have no other explanation. Should have chosen not to handicapped myself.


One of my hunting partners has killed all North American caribou species save Woodland, countless elk, all North American moose species, bighorns, mountain goats, mule and whitetail deer, antelope and mountain lion with a tiny 6.5mm. That's probably too small beyond
200 yards as well by your evaluation. I'll tell him he needs to dump the 6.5 for a 30-30, .308, .30-06, .300 or a .270 at a minimum so he is not handicapped by his caliber choice. Neither of us has spent any money to hunt.......(not).

I will agree with you on one point, distance is difficult to judge on the prairie, on the tundra or in the mountains. That is why everyone I hunt with uses a laser rangefinder. Talk about handicapping yourself needlessly.


Little bullets don't kill because of a lack of muzzle energy according to ballistic charts and are a handicap. YMMV......Your Marksmanship May Very.

Dirty Steve

 

[Hookeye]

My buddy took his antelope with a .25-06.
Said the guides had a loaner rifle for rubes that showed up.........

BAR..............in .243 win.

 

[d80hunter]

Your going to have guys say .243 is too anemic. Some will even say a 30-30 is too weak. Just ask them how many animals they harvested with a .243