Are we Totalitarian yet?

[tackdriver]

Very similar to what you posted from the dictionary. Significant government control and overreach into our daily lives. Think 1984, or North Korea. I don’t think social pressure is linked to the government. Or what a private employer does in response to beliefs about what the government says they’ll do at a later date. When legislation controls our lives to a significant degree, that would fit my definition.

I know a little about North Korea, and about the peoples history that led up to it. There was a long history of brutal feudalism. Aside from opposing elites wrestling for power, it was totalitarian. There was also a great deal of corruption, nepotism, and influence pedaling over hundreds (if not thousands) of years. One attempt at correcting the problem and improving the life of the people lead to a revolution, and the Chosun Dynasty. Eventually (hundreds of years; generations), corruption and infighting lead to domination by Japan. (Japan started with trade, then influenced markets, then disrupted currency, while at the same time buying political influence; all leading to eventual domination by force). Many embraced communism as the answer, as the savior, for the people. Now they have North Korea.

It's helpful to remember that we, the USA, aren't even 300 years down the road yet. It can be very instructive and benificial to look at places with a longer timeline, and see if there are lessons to be found.

1984 is a true classic tale.

 

[manifest destiny]

Your statement:

The society as a whole is perfectly justified to remove the threat, see all the anti-mask 'Karens' removed, detained, fined, etc.

My reply:

Nothing says freedom like removal, detainment and fines.

Your response to my reply:

So your idea of 'Freedom' is to do,
1. Whatever you want,
2. Whenever you want,
3. To whoever you want,
4. And no one else has any rights.

Why do we have laws, courts, prisons?

I wrote eight words. You wrote 32 words. Only one word is common within that exchange. That word is freedom. You and I obviously define that word differently. My freedom allows me to tell you that what I wear on my face is none of your business. Your freedom says I should be removed from society for not wearing, on my face, what you think I should. Jeep, a right, an unalienable right, bestowed by one's maker, does not require another person to do anything. You have freedom of speech, nobody has to listen.

 

[ancjr]

If the govt were actually restrained to enumerated powers, it really wouldn't matter so much how much money they made or who they got it from.

 

[1nderbeard]

I think the discussion has been more about trajectory than where we are on the spectrum. No we aren't rounding dissidents up into camps, yet, at least not in large numbers. But we are closer than we were.

yes. Definitely closer today than even 10 years ago. We'll be there eventually.

 

[ancjr]

At the end of the day it always goes back to the founders gave us a constitution for a moral people and the corrupt are close to destroying that…

I have 0 confidence in secular governance for this very reason. Humans are fallible, and therefore, even their best remedies to their faults are also fallible. Entropy is evident.

 

[BugI02]

I think any government would exercise as much control as they could get away with. It’s the getting away with it that’s the trouble, and the recent court cases on the Biden mandates show they’re not getting away with it. Trying to be something is not the same as being something. Other than that, we are mostly on the same page as far as where we are currently.

D'accord

But I hope you aren't saying we have to wait until the government is actually real ass totalitarian before we can begin to resist the idea

 

[jsharmon7]

D'accord

But I hope you aren't saying we have to wait until the government is actually real ass totalitarian before we can begin to resist the idea

No. My responses have been to the original question in this thread, which was whether we are there yet. I don’t think we are. It seemed like some people disagreed with my definition of certain things. Some have stated they think we are well on our way, and that’s perfectly valid from where I sit.

 

[BugI02]

I have 0 confidence in secular governance for this very reason. Humans are fallible, and therefore, even their best remedies to their faults are also fallible. Entropy is evident.

Once we begin to think the state can redefine what is sinful and what is not, we have passed through the wide gate and are moving rapidly down the broad way

 

[ancjr]

Once we begin to think the state can redefine what is sinful and what is not, we have passed through the wide gate and are moving rapidly down the broad way

I 110% agree.

And I'm also 110% certain the current circus is a curse for having allowed a stolen election.

 

[ziggy]

My original post was to say I believe we are moving down the path toward becoming a totalitarian society. We are not totalitarian today by most definitions of the term. It does seem to me that anyone with eyes to see, and ears to hear what is happening to our culture and government is likely to agree.

I believe that a return to the principles of our constitution, and faith in the Creator, can get us off the path we are on and headed back toward greater freedom. That is why I support the Convention of States project: https://conventionofstates.com/ It is not the perfect solution, but it is the only one that is provided for in the Constitution, in Article V.

Thanks to all who have posted in this thread. I believe these are important issues for us to discuss and debate.

 

[AtTheMurph]

"Are we Totalitarian yet?"​

Why don't you ask Julian Assange?

 

[jsx1043]

 

[Magyars]

 

[ancjr]

Thomas Sowell's A Conflict of Visions covers the philosophical origins of this. Published in 1987.

A Conflict of Visions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Hatin Since 87]

They sure can't handle proven science, facts

“Proven” science, huh? Like the “proven” science behind the masks, that continually changes? Now you must double mask. Or what about the “proven” science behind the vaccine that requires a booster every few months? Make sure you’re FULLY vaccinated, wouldn’t wanna miss your 20th booster and have to rely on your immune system to fight a 99% chance of survival. That sounds awful!


You keep your “science” I’ll keep my common sense.