Are we Totalitarian yet?

[DoggyDaddy]

And absolutely no campaign ads until 1 week before election day.

 

[Chewie]

This actually came up earlier: can government inactivity create totalitarianism? I lean toward “lack of government” not fitting the description. If we take it all the way to no government intervention, I’d be hard-pressed to feel like that fits the description you posted. It’s a problem, but is it totalitarian?

Inactivity doesn't create totalinarianism but is a tool to allow the creation of it. Think "mostly peaceful protests", by allowing anarchy to exist/grow eventually the calls for strict actions to eliminate and control those instigating become/require absolute control. Once power/control is obtained it is never relinquished willingly!
This is my opinion of what may happen if the masses don't oppose it early/strongly enough.

 

[BugI02]

Very similar to what you posted from the dictionary. Significant government control and overreach into our daily lives. Think 1984, or North Korea. I don’t think social pressure is linked to the government. Or what a private employer does in response to beliefs about what the government says they’ll do at a later date. When legislation controls our lives to a significant degree, that would fit my definition.

Do you think the present government would seek to exercise such control if they thought they could get away with it?

Is there such a thing as a proto-totalitarian government? To address the thread's raison d'être, I believe we're a lot closer than we think, but not there yet - but it isn't for lack of trying. Australia is the reason I believe so, and 2A is the reason I think they're being cautious. I think they absolutely will take/keep control by extralegal means if they believe they can get away with it

The people who believe we'll all just roll over and this won't end in blood are, IMO, whistling past the graveyard

Any Republican who gets elected and doesn't believe cleaning house is job one at the DoJ, 'intelligence' agencies, FBI and joint chiefs/flag level military will get the same treatment Trump did or worse and the reprieve will only be temporary

 

[BugI02]

Is corruption equivalent to totalitarianism?

Russia is an oligarchy, so it is run by corrupt self-serving power centers; but the country is also totalitarian - unless you think polonium tea, nerve agents or a political adversary being gunned down in a country with very strict controls on firearms have nothing to do with that government exerting control on politics and opinion

Would that not be an example of corruption equals or leads to/supports totalitarianism?

 

[Ingomike]

Very similar to what you posted from the dictionary. Significant government control and overreach into our daily lives. Think 1984, or North Korea. I don’t think social pressure is linked to the government. Or what a private employer does in response to beliefs about what the government says they’ll do at a later date. When legislation controls our lives to a significant degree, that would fit my definition.

You are really missing that government has figured out how to control via third parties, including amping up social pressure. Most of the actions taken in the past two years were not done legislatively, and therefore are unconstitutional, but still being enforced.

Do you feel you have more freedom today than in 2018?

 

[jsharmon7]

You are really missing that government has figured out how to control via third parties, including amping up social pressure. Most of the actions taken in the past two years were not done legislatively, and therefore are unconstitutional, but still being enforced.

Do you feel you have more freedom today than in 2018?

I like to watch old shows from the 60s and 70s. They used racial/ethnic/religious “slurs” that would never fly today. What changed? Was it third-party control by the government, or changing social norms? If someone feels like they can’t speak out against the vaccine because of social pressure, it’s because they know their community would look down on it, just like if they used certain words that were common 50 years ago. It seems like you’re arguing that any time social norms change it’s because of government puppet masters. My problem with your argument is that you can use it to fit anything you don’t like. Favorite restaurant has a new policy I don’t like? Government control. Work has a mask policy? Government control. How can we ever identify actual government control if we call everything we don’t like “government control.” Maybe other people just disagree with us.

As far as now vs. 2018, things are more restrictive now. If you’re arguing we are on the path toward totalitarianism, then that’s a good argument and I would agree. This thread is about whether we are there yet, and I don’t think we are.

 

[jsharmon7]

Do you think the present government would seek to exercise such control if they thought they could get away with it?

Is there such a thing as a proto-totalitarian government? To address the thread's raison d'être, I believe we're a lot closer than we think, but not there yet - but it isn't for lack of trying. Australia is the reason I believe so, and 2A is the reason I think they're being cautious. I think they absolutely will take/keep control by extralegal means if they believe they can get away with it

The people who believe we'll all just roll over and this won't end in blood are, IMO, whistling past the graveyard

Any Republican who gets elected and doesn't believe cleaning house is job one at the DoJ, 'intelligence' agencies, FBI and joint chiefs/flag level military will get the same treatment Trump did or worse and the reprieve will only be temporary

I think any government would exercise as much control as they could get away with. It’s the getting away with it that’s the trouble, and the recent court cases on the Biden mandates show they’re not getting away with it. Trying to be something is not the same as being something. Other than that, we are mostly on the same page as far as where we are currently.

 

[firecadet613]

You are really missing that government has figured out how to control via third parties, including amping up social pressure. Most of the actions taken in the past two years were not done legislatively, and therefore are unconstitutional, but still being enforced.

Do you feel you have more freedom today than in 2018?

You mean like employers asking for vaxx status, not because they want to but because .gov is MANDATING it?

 

[Leadeye]

The people who write the law represent us, theoretically. So if they pass laws the majority likes, it results in them keeping them in office. So the laws represent the will of the people. Again, in theory.


I think I’m getting away from the point of this thread, so I’ll leave that line of thought alone.

This is where I see some cities in this country. It's really difficult for me to believe that people enjoy living in messes like we see in Chicago and places on the west coast. They should hold a special election and toss the current leadership out. I would bet though that won't happen and it wouldn't surprise me if the same leadership stays in power after elections. Why?

Chicago is easy to understand as it's always been that way, like a drunken uncle at Christmas. Tammany the same, but these places are revolving around money and self interest. It's hard for me to understand how public and business leadership can embrace woke, BLM and the dumpster fires that go with it. Are there that many woke people with cash in their pockets that make this a working system like Chicago, or is it just a few with an enormous pile of cash?

Maybe it's not a dictatorship of the government, but one of those who own the government.

Always follow the money

 

[jsharmon7]

This is where I see some cities in this country. It's really difficult for me to believe that people enjoy living in messes like we see in Chicago and places on the west coast. They should hold a special election and toss the current leadership out. I would bet though that won't happen and it wouldn't surprise me if the same leadership stays in power after elections. Why?

Chicago is easy to understand as it's always been that way, like a drunken uncle at Christmas. Tammany the same, but these places are revolving around money and self interest. It's hard for me to understand how public and business leadership can embrace woke, BLM and the dumpster fires that go with it. Are there that many woke people with cash in their pockets that make this a working system like Chicago, or is it just a few with an enormous pile of cash?

Maybe it's not a dictatorship of the government, but one of those who own the government.

Always follow the money

Sometimes I wonder if those folks are just too deep at this point to admit their policies don’t work. Everything is a mess and they just have to keep saying “no this is fine, everything is fine.”

 

[ancjr]

Sometimes I wonder if those folks are just too deep at this point to admit their policies don’t work. Everything is a mess and they just have to keep saying “no this is fine, everything is fine.”

That would seem to call into question the ability for mankind to improve. No one being perfect, and forever having to concede to its faults.

Actually, I think I agree with this.

 

[Ziggidy]

There are no consequences for evil or immorality in todays USA. Evil knows there is no punishment. Good has become evil and evil has become good. As a result we watch our freedom slip through our fingers.

History has repeatedly told us this story. We never live and learn. We become complacent and comfortable. Comfort has become the new freedom. Lose everything but be comfortable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ancjr]

*shrug* "We all have our faults"

 

[Ingomike]

I think legislation that would limit contributions from any individual, corporation, PAC, etc. to $100 for any candidate would help. Or maybe better yet, limit campaign spending to say, $10,000 per candidate per election cycle. Make the candidates go out and beat feet on the pavement if they want to campaign. No (or extremely limited) media coverage and advertising. Do away with lobbying altogether. Make it illegal to lobby lawmakers for anyone. Penalties would be up to loss of the guilty party's business.

Should we also throw away the constitution?

 

[Ingomike]

As far as now vs. 2018, things are more restrictive now. If you’re arguing we are on the path toward totalitarianism, then that’s a good argument and I would agree. This thread is about whether we are there yet, and I don’t think we are.

Agree, we are not there but we are well on our way…

 

[ancjr]

We're on our way because we read in the newspaper and see on TV all sorts of evil while at the same time not being able to identify or correct our own evil. Not everyone is at the point in their life where they can truly understand this.

EDIT: You can't see the gulag that you're participating in, only the one that you're not.

 

[DadSmith]

Wanna go to Australia?

Australians gave up their firearms instead of using them to protect freedom. They deserve what they are getting.

If we give up our firearms instead of using them to protect the Constitution and our freedom we also deserve a totalitarian police state as well.

 

[ancjr]

The founders would be absolutely appalled there was permitted carry, tax stamps or the Johnson Amendment and that's just what I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[JeepHammer]

Nothing says freedom like removal, detainment and fines.

So your idea of 'Freedom' is to do,
1. Whatever you want,
2. Whenever you want,
3. To whoever you want,
4. And no one else has any rights.

Why do we have laws, courts, prisons?

 

[Ingomike]

So your idea of 'Freedom' is to do,
1. Whatever you want,
2. Whenever you want,
3. To whoever you want,
4. And no one else has any rights.

Why do we have laws, courts, prisons?

You clearly do not understand…