Arizona's Clown High Sheriff Gets The Taxpayers Another Multi-Million $ Bill

[rambone]

I don't think libertarianism necessitates the abolition of nations or national borders.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I don't think libertarianism necessitates the abolition of nations or national borders.

I should clarify. Borders may exist, but not in such a way that prevents anyone who is non-native to a particular place, from selling their labor.

 

[BtG]

Considering I own all four volumes of Human Action in hardback - as well as most of von Mises' collected works, also all in well-read hardback - you're preaching to the choir in quoting von Mises to me.

Appealing to a higher authority - even someone who is so deeply respected a thinker as von Mises - neither supports nor detracts from one's argument. Indeed, if I ever were to find flaw with the man's epistemology, it would be on the public's subsequent conflation of a free market with a global market. To assume, a priori, that a free, cross-border market REQUIRES a lack of national borders is fallacy. If sufficient means of production exist within nation-states, there is no barrier to the free flow of goods between nation-states with borders, but only upon services. The fact that America has well-defined borders does not inhibit my ability whatsoever - in itself - to order widgets from Taiwan. Or Israel. Or Germany. And of those services, those non-"open" borders might make it difficult for me to hire German individuals for my engineering firm (for example) were it not for the fact that structured immigration does exist and permits said individuals to work here, with ease.

Upon meeting albeit arbitrary requirements for immigrants, work visas are issued and said personnel may reside and work here, and there is still no tangible burden on the flow of trans-national services between nation-states, either. So, goods can flow, and through structured immigration/emigration, even services can flow trans-nationally. Since you seem to be a proponent of a borderless/"open borders" world, how do you propose to construct/de-struct such a system? How would such a world function? Please, do enlighten me on the normative and empirical aspects of a borderless/"open borders" world that these 'libertarians' are championing. While you're at it, you could perhaps make the distinction between libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism, since you're flying the anarcho-capitalist flag. You're as much of an anarchist as a libertarian, if you truly are a non-Statist. If so, then of course one would be "open borders," as borders are of themselves the hallmark of a state.

Open borders are not derived from economics, but sociology, and normative sociology at that. Conflation. A free market may be global, but it is not necessarily global, and to the extent that said market is global/trans-national, it is precisely the fact that structured immigration/emigration exists within all nation-states that provides for unimpeded flow and exchange of goods and services. A nation-state may adopt public policies that defy unimpeded flow of goods or services, but having structured immigration/emigration is not of itself an impetus to a free, trans-national market. Conflation.

And for your own edification, the man himself, as per Human Action: "The democracy of the market consists in the fact that people themselves make their choices and that no dictator has the power to force them to submit to his value judgments." - Ludwig von Mises

Very well put. I appreciate your pointing out of logical fallacies.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Very well put. I appreciate your pointing out of logical fallacies.

You are correct. He certainly pointed out the logical fallacies of free market economies needing the abolition of borders.... only problem is that it applies in fantasyland.

This quote sums it up:

If sufficient means of production exist within nation-states, there is no barrier to the free flow of goods between nation-states with borders, but only upon services.

"Sufficient means of production," ie everything is self contained. You won't find a state economy, in the history of the world, that has ever illustrated such nonsense.

 

[jamil]

You are correct. He certainly pointed out the logical fallacies of free market economies needing the abolition of borders.... only problem is that it applies in fantasyland.

This quote sums it up:

If sufficient means of production exist within nation-states, there is no barrier to the free flow of goods between nation-states with borders, but only upon services.

"Sufficient means of production," ie everything is self contained. You won't find a state economy, in the history of the world, that has ever illustrated such nonsense.

Did you read the whole thing or just stop there?

 

[Amishman44]

Well, if criminals were courteous enough to stop committing crimes, 'issues' such as these would cease to exist!

However, if you're serious about your concern regarding spending to curb / respond to crimes committed, please go to the criminals and ask them to stop! I'm sure they'll pay attention to you and respond positively (consent to) your request

Thank you for taking the time and putting out the effort to address your own concerns and solve your own problems!

 

[Trigger Time]

Does he support rounding up illegals? I think he does.

does he believe in the ideal that jail is not a resort? I think he does.

was he one of the only officials to actually investigate the Kenyan presidents real birth and forged birth certificate? I think he was

has he told the federal govt to go **** themselves? I think he has several times.

sounds like my kind of guy!

 

[copperhead-1911]

How this corrupt moron keeps getting elected is beyond me. His latest escapade has garnered a $3.75 million dollar bill that the taxpayers of Maricopa County will have to pick up. That runs his total up to about $17 million total that he's managed to force the taxpayers pick up for his incompetence and corruption. No doubt there's more to come. Trumping up charges and falsely arresting people seems to be his calling card. That and killing chickens.

Independent paper?s founders awarded $3.75 million over trumped-up arrests by Joe Arpaio | The Raw Story

People in the area he is in have to actually deal with lots of illegal immigrants and he puts them in their place and tells them they are not wanted leads to his re-election. Personally I wish we had more men like him in power.