AR's late to the party.

[Hookeye]

IIRC

Rifles have to have a 16" bbl (min) and overall length of 26" (stock extended).
Short barreled rifles (BATF classification requiring a tax stamp) are not legal for IN deer hunting.
Public land deer hunting rifle cartridge spec differs from private land.

.300 BO is legal in rifle form for private land only.
Is legal for both public and private in handgun.

Handgun hunters took less than 1% of the deer harvest last yr.

 

[Ggreen]

IIRC

Rifles have to have a 16" bbl (min) and overall length of 26" (stock extended).
Short barreled rifles (BATF classification requiring a tax stamp) are not legal for IN deer hunting.
Public land deer hunting rifle cartridge spec differs from private land.

.300 BO is legal in rifle form for private land only.
Is legal for both public and private in handgun.

Handgun hunters took less than 1% of the deer harvest last yr.

I think you can hunt with an sbr. It only says a rifle with a barrel less than 18"is not a pistol, meaning you can't use an sbr as a pistol for public hunting grounds. There is no minimum barrel length in the state's definition of a rifle tho, only says that a rifle with less than an 18"barrel is not considered a pistol. So on private land a 10.5" sbr 300blk should be legal.

 

[kirtar]

[STRIKE]That's also my assessment since neither IC nor the DNR guide say that it's not legal as a rifle.[/STRIKE]

Actually on reread, IC 35-47-1-6 would end up considering them handguns but the DNR says otherwise.

 

[cg21]

so can a rifle length buffer tube be outfitted with a pistol brace? both functionally and legally?

 

[Hop]

so can a rifle length buffer tube be outfitted with a pistol brace? both functionally and legally?

There are pistol brace kits that fit a carbine length buffer / reciever tube. Carbine length tubes come in both styles, with or without the position locking holes on the underside. Only recently have "pistol" braces shown up made for a tube with the locking holes. These newer style pistol braces make it real easy to build a lower, attach an adjustable pistol brace while waiting on your SBR tax stamp.

I haven't seen one saying it was specifically for the longer rifle tube. I have never seen an AR "pistol" lower wearing a "rifle" length tube. The length of the buffer tube isn't what makes it a rifle or pistol.

 

[cg21]

There are pistol brace kits that fit a carbine length buffer / reciever tube. Carbine length tubes come in both styles, with or without the position locking holes on the underside. Only recently have "pistol" braces shown up made for a tube with the locking holes. These newer style pistol braces make it real easy to build a lower, attach an adjustable pistol brace while waiting on your SBR tax stamp.

I haven't seen one saying it was specifically for the longer rifle tube. I have never seen an AR "pistol" lower wearing a "rifle" length tube. The length of the buffer tube isn't what makes it a rifle or pistol.

thank you I have never had an ar pistol nor seen how the braces attach.

 

[Hop]

Yeah, the popularity of pistol builds has exploded in the last ~5 years due to these pistol braces. While it's fun to have a real registered SBR it's also a headache. You need ATF permission to cross state lines with an SBR. ATF restricts who can posses an SBR so you must keep it secured away from family members or anyone not on your NFA trust. The state of Indiana considers an SBR rifle a pistol so you need a LTCH to carry it around. I won't SBR any more lowers now due to the popularity of these pistol lowers.

It's stupidly complex. Anything with a rifle stock is a rifle. Anything with a rifle stock and a barrel shorter than 16" is an SBR. Anything with a pistol brace is either a pistol or a "firearm" depending on the barrel length. You can't put a verticle grip on a pistol but if your pistol build has a really long barrel then it's a "firearm" and can have a verticle grip. If you build the pistol solely to get around the ATF SBR rule and shoulder it then they say it's an SBR. If you built it as a pistol but it "accidentally" touches your shoulder it's still a pistol.

See how stupidly confusing all this can be? All unconstitutional imo.

 

[cg21]

Yeah, the popularity of pistol builds has exploded in the last ~5 years due to these pistol braces. While it's fun to have a real registered SBR it's also a headache. You need ATF permission to cross state lines with an SBR. ATF restricts who can posses an SBR so you must keep it secured away from family members or anyone not on your NFA trust. The state of Indiana considers an SBR rifle a pistol so you need a LTCH to carry it around. I won't SBR any more lowers now due to the popularity of these pistol lowers.

It's stupidly complex. Anything with a rifle stock is a rifle. Anything with a rifle stock and a barrel shorter than 16" is an SBR. Anything with a pistol brace is either a pistol or a "firearm" depending on the barrel length. You can't put a verticle grip on a pistol but if your pistol build has a really long barrel then it's a "firearm" and can have a verticle grip. If you build the pistol solely to get around the ATF SBR rule and shoulder it then they say it's an SBR. If you built it as a pistol but it "accidentally" touches your shoulder it's still a pistol.

See how stupidly confusing all this can be? All unconstitutional imo.

Didnt even add in the “non vertical” foregrips..

my biggest worry is running into a CO that doesn’t know the laws. With how confusing the laws are I can see many not knowing all of the regs/laws.... just like police officers with open carry issues....

 

[Ggreen]

Didnt even add in the “non vertical” foregrips..

my biggest worry is running into a CO that doesn’t know the laws. With how confusing the laws are I can see many not knowing all of the regs/laws.... just like police officers with open carry issues....

Who cares what that CO doesn't know. More than likely the ones working public grounds have a pretty reasonable idea on what is legal in an AR pistol, they aren't a new thing in Indiana hunting. I've never had a positive run in with dnr, even while always doing the right thing. I just expect every run in with a CO in the woods will be a negative experience no matter right or wrong. Last run in the CO tried to kick me off of property that I had express permission to be on, not to mention keys to the gate and cabin. He eventually threw his hands up and told me he would find the land owner then come to my house after he got proof I was trespassing, after I refused to leave over and over. After that if he saw my vehicle parked anywhere around that 200 acres he was going to stomp through the woods and he was going to ruin the hunting. Now his legacy continues as his son has taken over his spot in our region... In short, if you are right in the law, even if you get cited, you will come out alright. I swear DNR top brass are more interested in sending their CO's to shake down hunters than tracking down reported poaching and photographed ginseng thieves.

 

[cg21]

I agree with you 100% I just don’t want hassled and I am going to great lengths to make sure I am 100% legal. Sent an email to DNR to get my setup verified in writing.... which I’m planning on carrying with my hunting license.

i think it all is bs but that being said the co I would be dealing with didn’t have anything to do with writing in these insane laws. So to save myself issues this is what I’m choosing. Especially since i am planning to run a suppressor also.

You will have hunters that think I’m “preparing for war with deer” but really just building a nice set up that works for me. Could I kill them with a slug gun.... yes. But the slug gun doesn’t have nearly as many applications as the Gun I am planning.

 

[Ggreen]

I agree with you 100% I just don’t want hassled and I am going to great lengths to make sure I am 100% legal. Sent an email to DNR to get my setup verified in writing.... which I’m planning on carrying with my hunting license.

i think it all is bs but that being said the co I would be dealing with didn’t have anything to do with writing in these insane laws. So to save myself issues this is what I’m choosing. Especially since i am planning to run a suppressor also.

You will have hunters that think I’m “preparing for war with deer” but really just building a nice set up that works for me. Could I kill them with a slug gun.... yes. But the slug gun doesn’t have nearly as many applications as the Gun I am planning.

You will still get hassled whether someone sent you an email back or not. I've called the regional office to check on hunting a piece of ground donated to the dnr in an estate, was told no by the regional office. I sat around that night thinking that it's not "their" property it's the taxpayers, so I called and got put through to a CO, not the one I've had run ins with who said oh yeah go for it, and was friendly enough to let me know where he had seen other stands on the property. Not all CO's are bad, but there is definitely a culture of overreach and enforcement by feels rather than letter of the law. So your letter of permission from whoever answers their emails is useless. The entire DNR needs a house cleaning and to be set back on a path that is in line rather than allowing regional offices and lower management decide to do whatever they want. I'd just print out the ICR covering the legality and hand it to them when they can't produce the code themselves if you are worried about it. That person answering emails probably isn't even a CO.

 

[cg21]

All of my CO encounters have been great. Probably because my daughter (5) has been my hunting partner since 2

 

[cg21]

Good idea carrying the actual ICR

 

[seedubs1]

Unless you plan to enter into combat, a PSA or Anderson will suit your needs fine, without wasting your hard earned dollars.
There are more expensive, yes, but I don't want to pay the difference for looks.

Just.....no. Parts aint parts.

OP, do your research and buy quality. Some PSA stuff is OK, some is garbage. Anderson is affectionately referred to as the "poverty pony." You are CERTAINLY NOT just paying for looks when getting something better than PSA's non premium line or the poverty pony. You are paying for quality control, reliability, durability, etc...

 

[cce1302]

 

[Ggreen]

All of my CO encounters have been great. Probably because my daughter (5) has been my hunting partner since 2

That is what I remember growing up. Maybe they have a soft spot for kids that they don't for guys in their twenties hunting without kids. Or maybe, I happen to live in a region governed by a tyrant, that the state thought was a good idea to install his son in the same seat after his retirement. Either way, I've not met a CO that has been remotely professional or courteous. They do have to walk around in woods occupied by a lot of guys with guns, but I think our region has a real problem and it has soured my taste for the department as a whole.

 

[seedubs1]

Have fun with your junk. Parts aint parts. Anderson and lower end PSA is NOT "just as good as" BCM, Colt, etc...

 

[cce1302]

View attachment 71618

Have fun with your junk. Parts aint parts. Anderson and lower end PSA is NOT "just as good as" BCM, Colt, etc...

They are if you're assembling them piece by piece, the lower and the LPK, like the OP is asking. a franken-BCM or franken Colt will just cost more to assemble.

You can probably pay extra for BCM or Colt detents and springs if you want to, but I wouldn't brag about doing that.

 

[Ggreen]

They are if you're assembling them piece by piece, the lower and the LPK, like the OP is asking. a franken-BCM or franken Colt will just cost more to assemble.

You can probably pay extra for BCM or Colt detents and springs if you want to, but I wouldn't brag about doing that.

Having built more than a few on low cost lowers, I do spend more on detents lol. The last 2 Anderson lpk's required tools to push the take down pins out of their detents. Polishing them helped a little, but it is like trying to milk a mouse. I have never had an issue with a budget lower itself though. I like a good detent and a good trigger. As long as the holes line up I don't care what is etched on the side.

 

[seedubs1]

They are if you're assembling them piece by piece, the lower and the LPK, like the OP is asking. a franken-BCM or franken Colt will just cost more to assemble.

You can probably pay extra for BCM or Colt detents and springs if you want to, but I wouldn't brag about doing that.

So much is wrong with this^^^. An Anderson LPK is NOT the same quality as BCM. Parts aren't parts my man. Absolutely not.

There absolutely IS a difference. I've seen it when assembling rifles myself. If you hang out in any of the AR forums, you'll hear the same thing from the more experienced builders as well. Crappy and cheap parts may work.....they may not. They may need fluffed and buffed to work and operate smoothly. They may have springs and other stuff that fails all together when used. Or.....you may get lucky, and it might function 100%.

Personally, I'll pay the extra $20 for a quality lower and LPK so that I don't have to mess with fixing parts just to get them to function correctly and so I have peace of mind that they aren't going to fail when I want to shoot my rifle. In the total cost roll up of a build, the amount it takes to purchase quality LPK's and lowers over Anderson garbage is a drop in the bucket. Spend the extra $20.