ATF 41P and other rule changes.

[captcarl]

So, what keeps an individual from starting with a trust that only has 1 other trustee, then once they get all of their NFA goodies, amending their trust so they have many more on it?

This whole proposal is just ridiculous. Just another government regulation that will do nothing to curb any type of violence whatsoever, but we already know that isn't the goal behind it.

I would like to know this as well. I am not financially in a position to make any nfa purchases before this goes into effect, but if after that period would my soon to be wife have to be fingerprinted and photographs submitted to be added to my trust, or only if the trust were to make a purchase.

And I agree completely agree steve, we all know what the intensions in all this are. "Notifications" to local governments so that those on the ground closest know where things are... Does does notification only occur at purchase, or also if an item is permanently moved?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Josh Prince on 41P 2.0 (or whatever this is): 411 on the Final Rule in relation to ATF-41P | Prince Law Offices, P.C.

 

[Hop]

Josh Prince on 41P 2.0 (or whatever this is): 411 on the Final Rule in relation to ATF-41P | Prince Law Offices, P.C.

The part about the .gov forcing an individual to release tax info (edit - that the .gov is barred from releasing itself) to a potentially NFA unfriendly CLEO has me concerned. CLEO misuses that tax info, thinks he's got some gun nut in his district and swats him.

 

[Lammchop93]

Maybe it's just how I am reading in, but if this goes into effect, wouldn't buying a NFA item without the trust be a lot easier? Quite frankly, I don't want my parents to have the burden of paperwork/being-treated-like-a-criminal if I buy more NFA items because they are on my trust.

 

[MontereyC6]

Maybe it's just how I am reading in, but if this goes into effect, wouldn't buying a NFA item without the trust be a lot easier? Quite frankly, I don't want my parents to have the burden of paperwork/being-treated-like-a-criminal if I buy more NFA items because they are on my trust.

Could always ammend the trust and make them beneficiaries only. That way they wouldn't be considered a responsible party.

 

[Nicu757]

my question is what about my kids who are beneficiaries and then they turn 21 do I just make them trustees at that point I will be done with NFA items.............maybe

 

[captcarl]

Kirk, thank you for that link, that was very helpful and creditable.

With needing fingerprints and photos, will e-file be abandoned even for trusts? Only option I am imagining would be to have the photos and prints done as a service *and at a COST to us!* similar to being printed for LTCH, where the prints and photos are added through that third party to your application.

 

[Beowulf]

Anyone have a clue on how the CLEO notification part is supposed to work? How exactly are you supposed to prove this notification? Are they going to issue a form, or do you just have send it to them with receipt notification, to prove they took delivery of it.

 

[JollyMon]

Are these background checks / finger prints only going to occur on the trustees or also beneficiaries?

If just trustees, couldn't the grantor remove all trustees prior to submission so only he/she gets the background check. And then add them back onto the trust as soon as the form has been sent out? Since you are only supposed to submit the most updated trust at the next application. This would get around needing to get fingerprints for everyone.

 

[tatic05]

Seems everyone is curious about the same thing.

 

[gopurdue02]

I question the logistic of getting a finger prints? Do I have to go the county jail to get a mug shot and finger printed? When I lived in Marion county they did it as part of my cleo sign off..same process here now?

 

[Lammchop93]

There is no way they can make everyone submit finger prints and photos if they are on a trust. That would take up so much of the police's time that they need for more important things. This is all just BS.

 

[Sling10mm]

A lot of good questions and my guess is that the .gov hasn't thought much, if any, of this through before making the decision to do it, but that really shouldn't surprise anyone given a group of folks who continually demonstrate an inability to anticipate consequences of their actions.

 

[Bfish]

At least the count down hasn't begun since it's not on the federal registry yet... I am curious as to if you add someone after the day it takes effect if they will need to go be finger printed, have mug shots etc. If so I may want to make the one possible future amendment before then.

 

[ryknoll3]

At least the count down hasn't begun since it's not on the federal registry yet... I am curious as to if you add someone after the day it takes effect if they will need to go be finger printed, have mug shots etc. If so I may want to make the one possible future amendment before then.

No, according to the wording, you don't have to submit prints until applying for something. So, if you add someone after this takes effect, you wouldn't do prints and pics for them until you submitted a new form for your next item. If you don't add anymore items to the trust, that person would never submit the prints.

 

[ryknoll3]

I question the logistic of getting a finger prints? Do I have to go the county jail to get a mug shot and finger printed? When I lived in Marion county they did it as part of my cleo sign off..same process here now?

Pics are done anywhere that takes passport photos. Walgreens, CVS Walmart, etc... I take my own with a digital camera and print them on my inkjet printer. All it says for prints is that there are done by someone equipped to do them. Some people buy a fingerprint kit from the Internet and roll their own, I go down to the police station with the cards and they do them for me.

 

[ryknoll3]

Anyone have a clue on how the CLEO notification part is supposed to work? How exactly are you supposed to prove this notification? Are they going to issue a form, or do you just have send it to them with receipt notification, to prove they took delivery of it.

If it's anything like the notification for an FFL licensee, it's just on you to do it, and you certify when you sign the form that you did it. You won't have to prove that you notified them.

 

[Bfish]

No, according to the wording, you don't have to submit prints until applying for something. So, if you add someone after this takes effect, you wouldn't do prints and pics for them until you submitted a new form for your next item. If you don't add anymore items to the trust, that person would never submit the prints.

Makes sense... Good to know! Creates another issue for them but I won't complain...

I honestly could care less if they inform my CLEO I just don't want to have to mess with all of the photos, finger prints, etc... Pain in the butt!

 

[JollyMon]

No, according to the wording, you don't have to submit prints until applying for something. So, if you add someone after this takes effect, you wouldn't do prints and pics for them until you submitted a new form for your next item. If you don't add anymore items to the trust, that person would never submit the prints.

From what I read that is the case as long as you continue to submit applications every 24 months. So as long as you are constantly submitting forms, no new prints need to be sent. If there is a 24 month lull you will need to submit them for everyone again. .... this is what I gathered from the 41p thread going on over on arfcom

 

[ryknoll3]

Makes sense... Good to know! Creates another issue for them but I won't complain...

I honestly could care less if they inform my CLEO I just don't want to have to mess with all of the photos, finger prints, etc... Pain in the butt!

If will be on you to inform. You will send a copy of your Form in to your CLEO at the same time or before you submit it to the NFA branch.