Atlanta- Horde of teens attack rob MARTA passengers

[eldirector]

+1 to DFM914

One of the fundamental problems in the world today, from my perspective, is that we are all afraid to "get involved". Too many people sit on their hands. Too many people look the other way. Too many people claim that it doesn't effect THEM, so they will not intervene. I argue that it DOES effect ALL of us. Every person on that train was a victim - they were either beat or witnessed a beating. Their families, friends, and co-workers were involved as well, as they get to deal with the aftermath. WE are involved, because we are here talking about it.

Are we seriously willing to stand aside and let our family, friends, neighbors, acquaintances, and even strangers get beat down? How long will we let this go on? Until we are the only ones left standing, and they come for US? What happened to watching out for each other? What happened to paying it forward? All just lip service, I would guess.

No, I'm not saying "shoot them all, and let God sort them out." I AM saying, at some point we have to break this cycle. good people have to stand together and tell the thugs of the world, "We have had enough."

</rant off> And my flame-retardant suit is going on.

 

[goinggreyfast]

+1 to DFM914

One of the fundamental problems in the world today, from my perspective, is that we are all afraid to "get involved". Too many people sit on their hands. Too many people look the other way. Too many people claim that it doesn't effect THEM, so they will not intervene. I argue that it DOES effect ALL of us. Every person on that train was a victim - they were either beat or witnessed a beating. Their families, friends, and co-workers were involved as well, as they get to deal with the aftermath. WE are involved, because we are here talking about it.

Are we seriously willing to stand aside and let our family, friends, neighbors, acquaintances, and even strangers get beat down? How long will we let this go on? Until we are the only ones left standing, and they come for US? What happened to watching out for each other? What happened to paying it forward? All just lip service, I would guess.

No, I'm not saying "shoot them all, and let God sort them out." I AM saying, at some point we have to break this cycle. good people have to stand together and tell the thugs of the world, "We have had enough."

</rant off> And my flame-retardant suit is going on.

Right there with you Brother!

 

[OWGEM]

Could have used a Gorkha on that train...

MYREPUBLICA.com - News in Nepal: Fast, Full & Factual

 

[Jay]

I am fully AGAINST whipping your pistol out and opening fire on a gang assaulting the driver.

That driver was likely someone's spouse...... and if your spouse was being assaulted by a gang..... ??????

At this point you and I differ greatly..... but it's just the internet .....

 

[public servant]

That driver was likely someone's spouse...... and if your spouse was being assaulted by a gang..... ??????

At this point you and I differ greatly..... but it's just the internet .....

People, people. You only have to kill 3 or 4 of them. The rest will likely run off.

I really find it disheartening that there are people that would just sit and watch another human being get beaten to death.

As Jay said...let's hope it's not your wife or daughter getting their head bashed in as everyone sits quietly...trembling.

Sad display.

And for the record...you may not have to kill any of them (this would be the preferred outcome)...but at least raise hell or do something.

 

[critter592]

It's disturbing on MANY levels. It just reinforces my opinion of why I carry.

It's why I carry an extra magazine!!

Rare as the instance might be that I would NEED to reload I have it.

 

[Hammerhead]

The point that I was trying to make (which I evidently didn't make clear enough) was that for someone my age (22) to draw a gun without fear of my life when assaulted by one teenager (or 24 year old) is legally a poor decision because I can (at least in Indiana) have my pants sued right off my ass for use of excessive force. Do I agree with this? HELL NO! But that is what America has come to. I was simply trying to show the difference between one teen (or 24 year old) and a group of teens (or 24 year olds) attacking someone of roughly equal age.

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

No you can't. If it's justified, in this case seeing a large swarm of idiots causing harm to a whole train of people, no one can "sue your pants off." The self-defense law I posted here allows for justifiable homicide, or in other words "sometimes someone just needs killin'."

 

[finity]

What does the second amendment have to do with this story at all?

Umm…

Because when the powers that be infringe on our 2A rights they limit our ability to defend ourselves against animalistic attacks such as this.

I thought that it was fairly obvious.

Being armed doesnt make you a cop.

No, but it does make you a “sheepdog” if you so choose.

You can intervene without involving gunplay, people tend to forget that on gun forums.

You can but not when there are 20+ of them & only ONE of you. Not if you want a realistic expectation of survival.

And yes, I dont open fire when I see someone else getting a beating.... Do you?

If they are getting a beating (& didn’t start it) by 20+ gang members I’d likely try to intervene & not with my hands. That’s just DUMB.

But I guess they would end up in jail so that takes them out of the pool so to speak.

So what would be the reason for them going to jail? Because they used deadly force against a gang of 20+ people potentially beating another person to death?

Really, do tell this interesting legal theory in which the person would end up in prison for a justified shooting.

But but but wouldn't you be in fear of serious bodily injury??

Absolutely.

Are you saying you wouldn’t be?

Why, just think of all the things that could potentially happen!!

There only has to be one thing that has to happen for you to be justified to shoot. You already mentioned it above.

Could you (legally) draw your gun if you were involved in this attack?[/qute]

Yes. Not only draw it but use it.

You have to be in fear of your life if you draw your weapon, but thats not such an easy determination to make.

I really can’t see how there would be any question in this case if your well being was in danger. It’s one of THE most clear cut cases of disparity of force that we could come up with. If you can’t figure out if your well being was in jeopardy when faced with threats from 20+ gang members then you really need to reevaluate your personal threat warning system.

In the heat of the moment I'm sure you'll know right away whether you should draw or not. Unfortunately, after everything is over you could be taken to court by the parents of one of those hoodlums and have to defend your actions.

You could but it’s unlikely. That’s the myth that so many people try to get us to buy into. How many ACTUAL JUSTIFIED self-defense shootings end up with the defender being sued for his JUSTIFIED actions?

If you open fire from the back of the bus on however many dozen teenagers who are not assaulting YOU, no matter who they are clobbering with a pop can, you are in trouble with the law.

I’ll ask again, why?

What law have they violated?

When you are carrying a gun, the gun is not the answer to every problem you face.

True but it seems like a reasonable answer to 20+ gang members beating up innocent people who can’t get away.

We're all responsible for our own defense. If someone isn't my family or my friend, I'm not involving myself in their fight. I've had that desire weaned out of me by the many police officers, internet lawyers, and others over the years who told me to just call the police and let them handle it otherwise I would probably go to jail.

So if someone else hasn't availed himself of the tools needed to protect himself, that's not my problem.

If those kids start coming my way, then we have a whole different situation. I hate to have to be like this, but I finally got sick of being denigrated over the years for expressing that I would get in there and mix it up with the bad guys. So **** it. Sucks to be unarmed, doesn't it?

I’m sorry to see that you let others talk you out of standing up for your values so easily.

If I were to "assume" to know you, I would also venture to say that if it were one of your loved ones being beaten like that, with or without you being there, that you would take a different tone with guys like me who would do whatever he could to keep that from happening to them.

+1 to your whole post but especially this.

The point that I was trying to make (which I evidently didn't make clear enough) was that for someone my age (22) to draw a gun without fear of my life when assaulted by one teenager (or 24 year old) is legally a poor decision because I can (at least in Indiana) have my pants sued right off my ass for use of excessive force.

You say that like you have some knowledge that INDIANA specifically allows a person to be sued for use of excessive force.

Do you have any stats of the number of people being sued after they were involved in a justified act of self-defense to backup your belief that you WILL BE sued?

Of course you can’t draw on someone if you aren’t in fear of serious bodily injury. That’s not even being debated here.

So the question is, how much of a beating do you have to endure before you are suddenly justified in being in fear for your life?

That’s what all those who say that you can’t use deadly force against a simple assault. Sure, IF you knew ahead of time that the assault was going to be “simple”. I don’t know about you but I don’t have a crystal ball to see the future. I have no way of knowing ahead of time if that person will get a lucky punch that will kill me or if they will stop beating on me when I’m down.

I AM saying, at some point we have to break this cycle. good people have to stand together and tell the thugs of the world, "We have had enough."

+1 to you too.

That driver was likely someone's spouse...... and if your spouse was being assaulted by a gang..... ??????

At this point you and I differ greatly..... but it's just the internet .....

And another +1 for this.

 

[Bushido Devil Dog]

Could have used a Gorkha on that train...

MYREPUBLICA.com - News in Nepal: Fast, Full & Factual

Wow. 1 sheepdog armed with a khukri knife vs. 40 armed sub-human vermin is able to kill 3 and wound 8 more. Kudos to him for stepping up! This article illustrates the truth that mindset matters most; the machinery used is of secondary, not primary, consideration.

 

[TN_Mike]

You can intervene without involving gunplay, people tend to forget that on gun forums.

And yes, I dont open fire when I see someone else getting a beating.... Do you?

The last fight between two other people that I got in the middle of, I was armed, but did I start shooting at people? HELL NO. I used ... wait for it......its a shocker....

My hands.

It.. worries me that this forum is full of people who would. But I guess they would end up in jail so that takes them out of the pool so to speak.

You and I think alike.

 

[finity]

You and I think alike.

Sorry to hear that...

 

[public servant]

Sorry to hear that...

But his posts are shorter.

 

[goinggreyfast]

But his posts are shorter.

No doubt.

 

[finity]

But his posts are shorter.

Well, let's see...

You and I think alike.

Sorry to hear that...

Nope. 5 "words" each...

Besides, where's the fun in that?

 

[IndyBeerman]

I think we actually agree on everything then. But when I say "use hands" I dont mean karate-chopping 12 people like some kind of idiot, I mean to "open a window, open the door at the rear of the train" and let yourself and the other people out.

Hmmmm.... Let's see here

Meanwhile, several passengers sought to exit at the next stop, but for some reason the doors at the West End station wouldn't open

So since the doors would not open, I guess you're going rip off that shirt and expose the giant red "S" on your chest and blast open the side of the transit car and help them out, even while it's moving I suppose.

Whoops, I guess since ya got the giant red "S" on your chest, you don't have to do that. You'd just stand there and shield them with your cape and blow them to the rear of the car with your explosive air blowing.

I am fully with you defending yourself, I am fully AGAINST whipping your pistol out and opening fire on a gang assaulting the driver.

Georgia has a "Stand-your-ground Law" where if you fear for your life you may defend yourself with out retreating.

I think 20-24 teenagers threatening, beating, robbing passengers with the possibility of most of, or ALL of them assaulting a single passenger that resists can have the serious consequence of a person being beaten severely resulting in death, gives you or any other person the right to protect yourself and others.

I know if I was in that situation, I would draw, inform to cease, and take down the first one approaching, after that, it's the others decision on what course that take on if they live or not.

I know people have said MARTA is a no weapons, zone, concealed fixes that, that is until it's needed.