Avon Schools - School Safety Community Forum - 07/30/2018

[nakinate]

Won't metal detectors result in extra people dying when a murderer starts shooting as they enter rather than starting inside to take revenge on specific individuals or groups?

Get outta here with that logic! We can't be using any of that! Think of the children man!

 

[cordex]

Also, the hand-wringer was a school board member.

Did you catch her name? For those not there, she was not merely frightened of guns, she was spectacularly ignorant about the subject. Her first question was about what the school's policy was on open carry within the school.

Coach responded very patiently, reasonably, and evenhandedly whenever something came up that he could speak to, and was ready with a double armload of facts. Definitely the kind of guy you want speaking for our team.

The metal detectors turned out to be handheld wands, not portal style detectors, and they didn't discuss how or when they would be used, nor what the teacher running them would do if they actually came across an armed kid.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Did you catch her name? For those not there, she was not merely frightened of guns, she was spectacularly ignorant about the subject. Her first question was about what the school's policy was on open carry within the school.

Coach responded very patiently, reasonably, and evenhandedly whenever something came up that he could speak to, and was ready with a double armload of facts. Definitely the kind of guy you want speaking for our team.

The metal detectors turned out to be handheld wands, not portal style detectors, and they didn't discuss how or when they would be used, nor what the teacher running them would do if they actually came across an armed kid.

Ok, not the one I thought. Between Coach and the Admin type? Not the board member. She asked a machine gun question also.

 

[rhino]

Get outta here with that logic! We can't be using any of that! Think of the children man!

Now that we know it will be handheld wands . . . oy!

 

[Coach]

The board member was across the table from me. The lady between me and Principal Mize was a mother.

 

[Coach]

I was disappointed by the low turnout.

 

[DRob]

I was not there, don't have any involvement with Avon schools, and don't live in the district. I would just like to thank the rational, informed people who did participate as well as the school district for entertaining such a discussion. Many, many administrations lack the courage to even consider arming staff. Doing nothing is not an option but is the route which will be chosen by lots of school admins. And, metal detectors staffed by untrained, unarmed personnel is a ridiculous concept.

 

[Vigilant]

The Garrett’s and the like are only as good as the person using them. Low paid inadequately trained Pinkertons will NOT be able to operate them effectively enough to even pass as school safety. What they will do is add an hour to each end of the day just vetting students, as I assume teachers and staff will probably be exempted from going through the chokepoint.

 

[cordex]

The Garrett’s and the like are only as good as the person using them. Low paid inadequately trained Pinkertons will NOT be able to operate them effectively enough to even pass as school safety. What they will do is add an hour to each end of the day just vetting students, as I assume teachers and staff will probably be exempted from going through the chokepoint.

No chokepoints. No Pinkertons.
Unarmed staff (and likely the SROs) were to be trained in the use of detectors, but it did not sound like it would be mass scanning of every kid.

 

[Vigilant]

No chokepoints. No Pinkertons.
Unarmed staff (and likely the SROs) were to be trained in the use of detectors, but it did not sound like it would be mass scanning of every kid.

Wish I could have made it back from TN in time for this, if they aren’t checking EVERY kid, why check ANY? Or is it for visitors?

 

[cordex]

Wish I could have made it back from TN in time for this, if they aren’t checking EVERY kid, why check ANY? Or is it for visitors?

It's security theater.

 

[KellyinAvon]

It's security theater.

Interesting view Cordex. Theater (noun), a play or other activity or presentation considered in terms of its dramatic quality. It needs to be in terms of theater of operation. Deterrence prevents those bent on destruction from acting. Security theater simply annoys those authorized to be there.

 

[Coach]

The following day the metal detectors were not even mentioned to the high school staff. I cannot speak to what happened in other buildings but not one word in our building.

theater might be too strong. Perhaps a skit.

 

[eldirector]

Maybe more of a magic act? Smoke and Mirrors? Sleight of Hand? Hey Look! We talked about security (nothing changes). Hey Look! We got metal detectors (they are in the box, in the storage room). Hey! This all costs money! Let's check out those property taxes again...

I should invest in some metal detector companies.
https://www.kiplinger.com/tfn/ticker.html?ticker=OSIS
https://marketexclusive.com/roper-t...-by-cowen-with-a-330-00-price-target/2018/07/

 

[Coach]

I truly believe the people in admin at schools just do not understand the situation at all and they have no experience with threats. They just do not know what they do not know and they are afraid to explore threats, violence and evil because it will turn their world view. They want to fix the problem but they are just not comfortable with the fixes. I am not sure what to do about it. But I think this is the problem. They really mean well but just do not understand what needs to be done.

 

[rhino]

I truly believe the people in admin at schools just do not understand the situation at all and they have no experience with threats. They just do not know what they do not know and they are afraid to explore threats, violence and evil because it will turn their world view. They want to fix the problem but they are just not comfortable with the fixes. I am not sure what to do about it. But I think this is the problem. They really mean well but just do not understand what needs to be done.

I think you're right. If they accept the reality of what kind of evil some people can enact, they won't be able to live as comfortably. Right now they are secure that nothing can happen to them, but if it does, they can just call the police and the problem is solved. Shattering that illusion would require them to take responsibility for their own safety and that takes effort.

 

[Brad69]

I have no fight in the Avon decision.
It does seem to me a school board deciding what’s best for security is like taking you car to a medical Doctor?
To every point exist a counter point chokepoints can be reduced by staggered arrival time and multiple entrances ect.
Arming teachers would require a initial training and qualification then re qualification. I would guess a large part of the staff would not choose to participate. This could lead to portions of schools being left unprotected rendering the program ineffective.
Armed security that also control access to the school not RSO’s that also Police the school would be the most effective answer.
Schools can be hardened to the point of almost complete safety it’s a matter of money and how far do you want to go.
The Israeli school system has proven this.
I concur with Coaches comments if you cannot understand violence and evil exist you cannot prepare to fight it.


This is a interesting attack from Germany He used a homemade flame thrower and a lance.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_school_massacre

 

[2A_Tom]

Subscribed.

 

[jakeep]

My child is at Plainfield and I’ve heard one somewhat disturbing thing. Students do not immediately leave the school when the fire alarm goes off. They hold the students in the classroom for up to 3 mins to be sure it’s a real fire. I have some issues with this. I somewhat understand the logic but think it could lead to something just as bad as a school shooting.


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[actaeon277]

My child is at Plainfield and I’ve heard one somewhat disturbing thing. Students do not immediately leave the school when the fire alarm goes off. They hold the students in the classroom for up to 3 mins to be sure it’s a real fire. I have some issues with this. I somewhat understand the logic but think it could lead to something just as bad as a school shooting.


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Fires go from SMALL to BIG in just 5 minutes.
So 3 minutes is taking over half their time away.