Bad Experience with Carmel PD

[Jack Ryan]

Thats a good statement ,"Never involve the government in anything" or police{maybe only for traffic accident report} ,i take care of everything with myself

Not to single you out specificly but...

OK, I've ignored and ignored that statement over and over in this thread and I've got to say for it's a little hypocritical for some segments of this forum. If they are gonna say it they are gonna have to add to it, "... unless you light your own house on fire, then every government supported fire department around you is responsible to come put it out regardless if you are in their area of responsibility or paid your share of their operating expenses."

 

[thekuhnburger]

If anyone is interested you can leave a comment here
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Carmel is my hometown and this is no surprise if you have ever interacted with Carmel PD.

 

[Tactical Dave]

The bellow happend in my area and relates to this so I will share...

There is a dog in the area that got loose (a mut) and it attacked another dog that is a big but freindly GSD and messed the GSD up pretty good. Keep in mind the attack happend in the GSD's yard. Keep in mind there are a few young kinds and babies that live a stones throw away.

A few IMPD officers live in the area, two are good friends with each other. One of them was off duty and called animal control out but could not hang around because he had company over. Animal comtrol came out and cited/fined the mut's owners. GSD owner gave the mutt owner the $400 vet bill the next day.

Said officer knows that if said mutt comes back and decides to be stupid there will be a gun shot and a dead dog and by the time anyone realizes what happend nobody will be visible...... and nobody will have seen anything and I am by far not the only one in the area that has a gun.......

Warning shots only cause problems....... Also next time just call animal control and don't fix the fence, if it is fixed when someone shows up then it only hurts your story.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

About the same thing happened to a friend of mine in Beech Grove a few months back.. except he shot his neighbors dog. BGPD did take his firearm away, but he got it back the very next day.. the shooting was justified. His neighbor who owns the dog now has his house on the market. Warning shots are a waste of time and even your own money.. no need to do so if your life is really in "danger".

 

[rambone]

And you know what? Stupid son-of-a-***** that I am, if this happens tomorrow I’ll do exactly what I did today. I won’t be worn down or compromise my principles because of the degeneration of our government, at all levels, into a tyrannical circus.

+1 on all points. Our government is a tyrannical circus. The laws are a circus. This is why too many laws are a bad thing.

 

[henktermaat]

to the OP. You'll win in court.

A month or two ago I heard 5 shots in my backyard! I jumped up and went to the back door. Turns out there was a Carmel PD shooting at something in the brush behind one of the neighbor's property. I assume a rabid coon. 5 shots at something 6 feet away from him. I never did get he story on that.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

I've had some inquiries from some folks who want to go to court with me.

My first appearance is on November 10, at 0845HRS, at 1 Civic Square in Carmel.

 

[henktermaat]

I've had some inquiries from some folks who want to go to court with me.

My first appearance is on November 10, at 0845HRS, at 1 Civic Square in Carmel.

INGO road trip of support

Be warned, they will disarm you. Might be fun to go in there with empty holsters.

 

[henktermaat]

Carmel PD citizen complaint against officer page: Citizen Complaints

 

[Jar_Head]

If the Prosecutor files this case I'd request a jury trail, hopefully the prosecutors officers feels that the danger of death or serious bodily injury from these animals was obvious as it appears this police officer couldn't see that. I have a lot of police officer friends that have been bitten by dogs and have told stories of shooting dogs attacking them or about to attack. The only issue at hand is was the firearm fired in a direction that was or would have been a good back stop or safe location I believe in this case it was done correctly. This is yet another case where media attention needs to be brought in for common sense to prevail.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

CORRECTION!!!!

I can't read this guy's scrawling on my citation...the appearance is November 18, NOT November 10.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Carmel PD citizen complaint against officer page: Citizen Complaints

What exactly would be the basis of the complaint? The OP didn't say anything about the officer being rude, cursing at him, etc. Enforcing the ordinance as it was written isn't the basis for a complaint.

I'm sure I'll be accused of defending the officer and his tramplin of the OPs rights, but that isn't the case. I am just wondering why he would need to be complained on.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

I'd love to request a jury trial, but I'll definitely need to retain an attorney for that, and since the maximum fine for this is $500 it just isn't worth it.

I'll have to take my chances on a bench trial and hope Carmel's judges have more going for them than their badge-wearing thugs.

 

[Prometheus]

I am just wondering why he would need to be complained on.

Not being able to figure out that the code allows for the discharge of a weapon in defense of ones self or others Sounds reasonable to me... for the OP and any witnesses to file complaints anyway.

I wasn't there and we don't have any video of the event either, so I'm not filing a complaint based whats been posted here. Wouldn't make sense since it is second hand or hearsay or whatever it is via a webforum like this.

Not that I think Sanders is making anything up, it just doesn't stand to reason that I have any direct interest or knowledge in this... so to speak. I'm tired, forgive the run-on-E-ness of that.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

What exactly would be the basis of the complaint? The OP didn't say anything about the officer being rude, cursing at him, etc. Enforcing the ordinance as it was written isn't the basis for a complaint.

I'm sure I'll be accused of defending the officer and his tramplin of the OPs rights, but that isn't the case. I am just wondering why he would need to be complained on.

Frank, I understand where you're coming from, and I believe your interpretation of this is correct.


One thing that could be interpreted as misconduct was a threat he made to me when he gave me my citation. He told me that if I was involved in any more "incidents" that he would do "everything in his power" to confiscate my guns and revoke my LTCH.


I'm not going to pursue it. That could be interpreted as simply warning me of the consequences should I continue with my degenerate behavior of protecting my elderly neighbors.

 

[rambone]

I would not be paying that ordinance violation. I highly doubt given your background as well as the circumstances that the city attorney will prosecute that. Crazy! Goes to my old saying "Common sense ain't to common".

i fail to see how his history as a LEO is relevant to....oh wait, now i get it.

Well if you can't figure it out I won't be able to help you out man. Sorry

In all seriousness, I think it would be fair to take his history as a LEO into account when deciding whether or not to issue a citation in the same way that an officer could look at any person's vocation; he is probably not a scumbag if he holds a professional license of some type.

For the record, I think LibertySanders did the right thing, and I think he's a decent guy. Also, I hate the fact that he is being razzed about defending himself.


But reading this thread, people seem to be upset that there is no LEO exemption from the law. I will just lay this out there by saying: This is exactly why there needs to be no LEO exemption from the law.

Bad laws punish all of us, even the good guys. So, don't enforce bad laws!!!!! Period!! Look the other way! A badge should be no ticket out of trouble. We all need to feel the chains that weigh down our freedoms. Especially cops. If LEOs realize how unfair the laws are - from their own dealings with harassment - maybe they will have some empathy the next time they run into a driver with a burned out lightbulb on his car that just wants to be left alone.

LEOSA comes to mind too. Everyone needs to feel the tyranny so they don't get comfortable enjoying an elevated status, immune from .

I am in no way condoning awful restrictions on us. But we all need to be equally opposed to out-of-control government, and not feel privileged enough to being justifying their infringements on our liberty.


Good Luck LibertySanders, I heartily agree with your sentiments. What a tyrannical circus we have to deal with!!

 

[rambone]

One thing that could be interpreted as misconduct was a threat he made to me when he gave me my citation. He told me that if I was involved in any more "incidents" that he would do "everything in his power" to confiscate my guns and revoke my LTCH.

Wow, where do these guys get off thinking they can revoke people's rights?

 

[SavageEagle]

The point I was making, Ryan, was that the responding officer had already said that the shot fired was unnecessary, therefore a shot to kill the animal would have been also... at least in his opinion... and should be plenty of rope for the judge to yank and watch him (the responding LEO) twitch.

I gotta say, I'd have a lot more trouble shooting a dog that was approaching (even rapidly) than I would a person attacking. I can be much more certain of the person's intentions. I won't say I'd never shoot the dog, but I've had a pit bull in my house and he lives with my daughter now. He loves to play and he's very inquisitive and exuberant, so when he sees something or someone new, he wants to run over and investigate... usually barking. My daughter's new neighbor threatened to shoot him when she first moved in where she is now, simply because they didn't understand and because of the media-inspired phobia people have about these lovable dogs.

Don't hesitate to kill an attacking dog? Sure. But make sure he's attacking (and that he's attacking *you* and not someone behind you, there to do you harm) before you go getting all trigger-happy.

Note: This is not a "gun control" argument, just a reminder to think with an open mind rather than jumping to conclusions.

Blessings,
Bill

Oh, I completely understand what you were saying. It just seemed to me like you were implying he didn't have justification to shoot and was just pointing out that he did.

I, too, would have a harder time shooting a dog in some cases, but I can also tell when a dog is attacking vs. playing. I love pits. They are great dogs. But some people, like the owners of the dogs I encountered, abuse them for the aggressiveness that also comes with dogs such as these.

I would never draw and discharge my firearm without being sure it's warranted. However, when it comes to my small children, a set of charging, growling dogs will not get the benefit of the doubt. As I did in my situation, I'll do what I can to prevent the necessity of shooting, but in Liberty's case, I wouldn't have fired a warning shot.

 

[theweakerbrother]

THIN. BLUE. LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dross]

You should have just calmly explained to the police officer that the dog was driving a vehicle with a burned out license plate light and refused to exit the vehicle, and also kept asking a bunch of weird, rude, and annoying questions.

He'd have understood your frustration.