Frank_N_Stein
Grandmaster
I must have missed you mentioning that in your original post. No, I didn't miss it because it wasn't in there. Would have been nice to know the first time around.
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Bad Experience with Carmel PD
- Thread starter Liberty Sanders
- Start date
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I must have missed you mentioning that in your original post. No, I didn't miss it because it wasn't in there. Would have been nice to know the first time around.
warmachine
Marksman
Its a damn shame that Carmel PD is like that. Compared to the city I live in Carmel is beautiful and I was actually considering moving there in a couple years. Im not so sure now. But back on topic of the neighbor's dog, I think it was pretty stand up for trying to protect your neighbors (the elderly lady) and your neighbor's dog. Hope all goes well for you in November. Im sure being former LEO the judge will be more open to listen to your side of the story. Barney was probably all hopped up on authority to let reason win.
+1 and hope things work out for you.
A well-regulated* populace, being tolerated for now by The State, the privilege of those people reluctantly approved to keep or (if they just have to) bear arms, may be infringed.
(*taxed, licensed, requiring CLEO sign-off, fingerprints, submission of personal information, photo (in some cases), background investigation, and databased so that they can be effectively tracked, monitored, and controlled.)
Alternate:
A well-controlled populace, being necessary to the security of The State, the privilege of some of the people to keep and/or bear arms, may be infringed.
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Actually, the cop is kinda right on this one.
Apparently, the OP didn't really think that any lives were in danger, as he didn't shoot the damn mongrel. His "warning shot" (how do you warn a non-human??) worked, but that was just luck. Not all dogs are especially frightened of loud noises, particularly dogs that are already chewing on you.
If you feel you have to fire your gun in a neighborhood, you darn well should put the bullet where it will solve the problem. I'd rather fret over the a-hole neighbor who lets his vicious dog run free being upset, than some 4 year old kid down the block being this "lovable" dog's lunch tomorrow.
"I don't understand it....Fido never was aggressive before!" How many times do we hear that on the news?
If you go armed, take care of business when you need to. Or leave it in the safe.
Apparently, the OP didn't really think that any lives were in danger, as he didn't shoot the damn mongrel. His "warning shot" (how do you warn a non-human??) worked, but that was just luck. Not all dogs are especially frightened of loud noises, particularly dogs that are already chewing on you.
If you feel you have to fire your gun in a neighborhood, you darn well should put the bullet where it will solve the problem. I'd rather fret over the a-hole neighbor who lets his vicious dog run free being upset, than some 4 year old kid down the block being this "lovable" dog's lunch tomorrow.
"I don't understand it....Fido never was aggressive before!" How many times do we hear that on the news?
If you go armed, take care of business when you need to. Or leave it in the safe.
Armchair + quarterback = the above!
So the way that solved the problem without destroying your neighbor's dog was the wrong one? I wouldn't have criticized the OP had he shot the dog, but I certainly am not going to sit back and criticize him handling the situation in a fashion that doesn't involve whacking your neighbor's pet and engendering possible lawsuits.
The "take care of business" part is really cute, especially when the civil demand letter comes or the police arrest you.
I am really at a loss to understand how the cop was legally right on this. Please explain your position that it was ok to shoot the dog (which is going to involve a round moving horizontally through the neighborhood), but not to scare him of with a vertical round into the ground.
Do you really think the cop was going to be happier if the OP had moved UP the force continuum?
Joe
SavageEagle
Grandmaster
- Apr 27, 2008
- 19,568
- 38
I know the cop was wrong, but I won't say what Liberty did was wrong either. It wasn't because it worked. He fired into the ground and not randomly into the air or down the street. Sure, there was a chance of ricochet, but Liberty knows what kind of ground he has around him and whether it was safe to do so or not. I've met and talked with Liberty on more than one occasion and I feel safe in saying that he wasn't going to do anything to harm those around him.
I will say that I personally would have shot the dog because in this situation the dog was already gnawing on him. But that's just me. What Liberty did was admirable and I don't feel anyone is right in demonizing him for that.
I will say that I personally would have shot the dog because in this situation the dog was already gnawing on him. But that's just me. What Liberty did was admirable and I don't feel anyone is right in demonizing him for that.
Gotta ask...so if Liberty had explained to the officer that he intended to shoot the biting dog, but simply "missed", and then not followed up with a kill shot because the dog let loose and went back into his fenced-in backyard, would this have been considered a legal discharge by Barney Fife?
In my town there is also a law against discharging guns in city limits. Like any community I think the way things are handled pretty much depends on which officer answers the call. Most LEO in my town would surely have overlooked the discharge because of the circumstances but then again, a couple of them would have reacted the same as this cop did. There is a city ordinance here that allows the police to shoot on sight any animal that displays an intent to attack them or any other individual.
ATF Consumer
Shooter
It's called selective enforcement. Officers use discretionary judgement on when to enforce particular laws...probably most of these are based on the mood/attitude of both the LEO and the one in violation.
I know a guy (INGO) who was about to be attacked by a dog, so he shot the dog. Long story short, he did everything he could possibly do to avoid the dangerous dog, but when the dog charged him, he didn't have a choice. He has had his guns confiscated and now he's going through the court system. I wonder what would have happend if he shot a warning shot?
In this case, the dogs were saved, the OP was safe, the elderly neighbor and her dog was saved. What would be the reason for shooting the dog and wouldn't (shouldn't) everyone be apreciative that the dog was spared and no human being was injured? I know, I'm preaching to the choir, but this is just silly, even for Carmel.
In this case, the dogs were saved, the OP was safe, the elderly neighbor and her dog was saved. What would be the reason for shooting the dog and wouldn't (shouldn't) everyone be apreciative that the dog was spared and no human being was injured? I know, I'm preaching to the choir, but this is just silly, even for Carmel.
PatriotPride
Shooter
Terrible experience. I hope you get this all sorted out. Good luck!
E5RANGER375
Shooter
"HIS POWER"?
see thats where too many cops have the wrong idea. They dont have any power. The law is the power and its their jobs to enforce it and nothing else. not go on witch hunts or revenge sprees that we see a lot of. I probly would have told the punk to kiss my ass. i mean he already gave you the citation so .....good luck in court. I'm sure you will beat this. I would also file a complaint to keep barney in check and remind him for the rest of his job tenure who's realy in charge.
E5RANGER375
Shooter
yep, your best bet is to not even call the cops. hose down the yard and throw the beast into the street.
I cant see most interactions with police involving firearms a good one. best not even chance it.
Joe Williams
Shooter
- Jun 26, 2008
- 10,431
- 38
Well, technically that's exactly what the cop did. He chose not to exercise the discretion he could have, and enforced the law as written. Gonna be kind of hard to file a complaint against him for that.
The discussion is whether he should have exercised his discretion. I think he should have, but that would put him in conflict with the part of your statement I quoted above.
Agreed, I don't involve the law unless abosuletly necassary, haven't met a cop yet, that truly wanted to help in the situation. Not saying they arent out there, I just don't have the luck of the draw to get one, so there's no point in involving them.
Tired of dealing with the egos and powertrips.
Yeah, same question/comment here.
I'm guessing with the attitude displayed liberty would still be a loose cannon.
Just the act of firing the gun in city limits put him in the hot seat.
E5RANGER375
Shooter
not realy because theres 2 laws that play against each other on this. officer discression shouldnt even come into play here. its more like common sense. this ass clown shouldnt even have a badge.
and his final statement is just more classic cop intimidation like we see all the time. almost word for word. They must have a special intimidation class at ILEA now. I think if a lot of them couldnt hide behind the badge and could take their ass whoopins like the rest of us, it would clear some things up. wheres that tar and feathers?
we ALL put our pants on the same. but some cops still want their own forums
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Tactical Dave
Grandmaster
Let us all also remember that anyone can post anything on the internet....... or post what they "thought" someone said or twist the words around a little. That's why I take all of what I see on the internet with a grain of salt.
