Bait and Switch! (?????)

[92ThoStro]

How could he even think that he was right?
So you first sell a weapon to felon, then find out he is a felon, and take it back?

 

[mistap]

It is a sellers market right now, I'm surprised he agreed to a deal at all.
He was probably mad, because he most likely could have sold the pistol for his full asking price while you both waited the 45 mins. it took to do the paper work and back ground check.

Good luck in the future, the gun market has been changing in the past few years, before long I wonder if dealers will "deal" at all.
They are becoming like every other commodity, I expect them to be like a lot of car dealers these days with the "no haggle" price, meaning the price is the price. If you don't like it don't buy it.

Was it:
Black? No
.556? No
Have "A" in its name? No
Have a mag capacity of 10+? No
"Tactical" in its name? Nope

Let's see, that adds up to: willing to deal a bit!

 

[MikeDVB]

Some people don't know what 'Out The Door' means - to be honest, I'd never heard the phrase used in that way before.

For me - if we're talking pricing - we're not talking about tax.

I wouldn't go to a car dealership and ask for $16k out the door and then be mad when tax, licensing, and registration was not included in that. To me, 'out the door' is what you negotiated the price down to before any and all applicable taxes and other fees that are not 'included' in the price.

Now, if the tag said "$445 out the door including tax" and you said "400 out the door" I could totally see you being miffed about tax being applied.

All of that said - do you genuinely believe they were trying to bait/switch and deceive you? If so, vote with your wallet.

 

[scottka]

Some people don't know what 'Out The Door' means - to be honest, I'd never heard the phrase used in that way before.

For me - if we're talking pricing - we're not talking about tax.

I wouldn't go to a car dealership and ask for $16k out the door and then be mad when tax, licensing, and registration was not included in that. To me, 'out the door' is what you negotiated the price down to before any and all applicable taxes and other fees that are not 'included' in the price.

Now, if the tag said "$445 out the door including tax" and you said "400 out the door" I could totally see you being miffed about tax being applied.

All of that said - do you genuinely believe they were trying to bait/switch and deceive you? If so, vote with your wallet.

A lot of people use "out the door" when buying vehicles. It's a good way to know what you want to pay when comparing at different dealers because most of them have different fees. Out the door is the money that comes out of your wallet, not necessarily what the seller gets (he has to split it with the .gov).

 

[PiccoloPlayer]

Why was he charging you 11.25% in taxes?

 

[NDhunter]

Out the door literally means out-the-door. $400 and you take it out-of-the-door(s). We're they purposefully doing this or do you think they really just did not know? I'm guessing the former, but just wondering.

 

[MikeDVB]

I understand the concept now, I've just never used it and never had it used so would have made the same mistake.

 

[223 Gunner]

Was it:
Black? No
.556? No
Have "A" in its name? No
Have a mag capacity of 10+? No
"Tactical" in its name? Nope

Let's see, that adds up to: willing to deal a bit!

It's still a sellers market, whether it is an "assault weapon" or not, guns are flying off the shelves at all the LGS's, and anything that already has a reasonable price is going to sell. I understand why you're mad, I too have been on both sides of the tables at gun shows. Out the door does typically mean tax included, this may be a term exclusive to gun shows, but that is what it means in my mind. But guns are the only commodity that people expect the dealer to "eat the tax" so to speak, that I am aware of. We don't go to jewelry or furniture stores and expect the same thing. At least I don't, I just expect that sales tax will be collected by any retail establishment. Like I said in an earlier post, I think the landscape is changing in the gun community.

 

[B6240]

You did what I would have done. The next time he will think about the time he wasted not selling the gun before when he tries to pull this off again.

 

[MikeDVB]

You did what I would have done. The next time he will think about the time he wasted not selling the gun before when he tries to pull this off again.

This is, of course, assuming it was intentional and not a misunderstanding.

 

[churchmouse]

It's still a sellers market, whether it is an "assault weapon" or not, guns are flying off the shelves at all the LGS's, and anything that already has a reasonable price is going to sell. I understand why you're mad, I too have been on both sides of the tables at gun shows. Out the door does typically mean tax included, this may be a term exclusive to gun shows, but that is what it means in my mind. But guns are the only commodity that people expect the dealer to "eat the tax" so to speak, that I am aware of. We don't go to jewelry or furniture stores and expect the same thing. At least I don't, I just expect that sales tax will be collected by any retail establishment. Like I said in an earlier post, I think the landscape is changing in the gun community.

I use the "OTD" purchasing technique on every major purchase we make.
Furniture/jewelry/guns....everything.
Sometimes folks are willing to deal....sometimes not.

 

[mistap]

I use the "OTD" purchasing technique on every major purchase we make.
Furniture/jewelry/guns....everything.
Sometimes folks are willing to deal....sometimes not.

OTD is akin to TT&L in the auto trade (Tax, Title and License) It is a term that means the total amount of consideration that is being offered for exchange. If the man did not understand that, he should have asked for clarification.

I have looked car salesman / managers in the eye and told them, "I am going to write you a check, one check, for $XXXXX.XX"; had them accept the offer, and then come back with a higher price on the purchasing documents that included a "doc" fee or something else...

I think car dealers do it as a normal course of business.

This dealer, I don't know. That's why I was asking if others had experienced this in the current "seller's market."

 

[churchmouse]

OTD is akin to TT&L in the auto trade (Tax, Title and License) It is a term that means the total amount of consideration that is being offered for exchange. If the man did not understand that, he should have asked for clarification.

I have looked car salesman / managers in the eye and told them, "I am going to write you a check, one check, for $XXXXX.XX"; had them accept the offer, and then come back with a higher price on the purchasing documents that included a "doc" fee or something else...

I think car dealers do it as a normal course of business.

This dealer, I don't know. That's why I was asking if others had experienced this in the current "seller's market."

I have had the same issues with car salesmen...fees and hidden charges.
I have always paid cash for my vehicles un-less I am leasing for business.
I am very lucky to have grown up with 2 fellas that sell cars. They get me OTD without the hidden fees. The one time I tried to buy without their assistance the sales staff attempted a major hosing. I walked out. The salesmen followed me running his pie hole the whole way to my car. Amazing they do not understand what shut the "F" up means.

Every seller is doing it for a profit and we all know this. Private sellers are just nuts with over pricing guns right now. Even in the classifieds there are several pieces that are priced at or above new and they are used.

 

[Rocket]

When I had my auto shop open. All the quotes I gave were OTD. So the customer knew what they would be paying in total before walking out the door. Sometimes people would come in and try to negotiate a different price. If I could still make money I would do it. If not I told them no thanks. The best one was a guy that needed an 800 repair and tried to convince me to do it for 200. I don't miss that crap.

Had to add. 4 years later it still sits unmoved in his drive cause he "fixed" it himself

 

[churchmouse]

When I had my auto shop open. All the quotes I gave were OTD. So the customer knew what they would be paying in total before walking out the door. Sometimes people would come in and try to negotiate a different price. If I could still make money I would do it. If not I told them no thanks. The best one was a guy that needed an 800 repair and tried to convince me to do it for 200. I don't miss that crap.

My son and I have done restoration work for years. It used to be fun. Now it sucks dealing with the idiots. We have 2 projects near completion. I think these are the last ones for the reasons you state.
Everyone thinks you can rebuild a car in 5 days. Thanks Chip Foose.

 

[DRob]

Problem found

OP, I see the problem. Your post starts with the words "At a gun show..."!

 

[mistap]

OP, I see the problem. Your post starts with the words "At a gun show..."!

For the Win! That's what I get for trying to suppoprt my local Conservation Club!

 

[Oresti]

I have NEVER exchanged cash before approval. NEVER.

How can a dealer "sell" me something for which I have not been approved?

Please retract your statement, lest someone believe it true.

Ditto. Every firearm I've bought the background check was done first.

 

[subtlesixer03]

The whole money before transfer thing came directly from an atf auditor with in the last month. They are getting damn picky now. There are other things to change as well. The nics check is supposed to be run after its paid for because technically you can't transfer ownership till money has changed hands. They are getting picky about receipts as well as the gun info on importers and makers on the 4473. Part of this I guess is to stop cancellations.

Selling xdms has been all sorts of fun lately. New and used sigs as well.

 

[subtlesixer03]

How could he even think that he was right?
So you first sell a weapon to felon, then find out he is a felon, and take it back?

They care about TRANSFOR not SELL. They could care less about taking money from a felon. They care ALOT about giving them the gun.