Bill Making Happy Hour Legal Heads To Governors Desk…

[chipbennett]

The law you cite treats impairment as an on/off switch rather than the gradual it is in real life. Judgement and inhibition are affected immediately. Many believe drunk/impaired is promoted by alcohol sales based on time that encourages speedy consumption to get another before time expires…

I get your points. Good discussion because it made me realize inconsistencies in the law. The 3pm deadline for alcohol sales also promotes drinking more before you cannot.

There's likely to be gray area, because it's all a matter of subjectivity. The bartender bears some legal responsibility not to knowingly serve someone who is already too drunk. That responsibility is justifiable, because, again, there is inherent harm involved - even if there's wiggle room because of the subjective nature of the bartender's judgment. Can we debate reasonably about that? Of course. The same thing with BAC. It is merely a proxy for impairment, and is also subjective. But the underlying issue - driving while impaired, is inherently harmful. Can we debate reasonably about where the line should be drawn? Of course.

 

[chipbennett]

Isn't that pretty much the philosophy behind all laws? To force or compel people to use their freedom only in ways that we approve?

I don't think of it that way. I think of it more as putting guardrails in place where one's exercise of freedom becomes a violation of the freedom of another. It's not a matter of liking/disliking or approving/disapproving of the manner in which one exercises freedom, but rather about securing the rights, and exercise of freedom, of all individuals.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

So?

Do you really think they're not going to do that, one way or the other? Drunk driving is illegal, regardless of how much an intoxicated person pays for their drinks or what time of the day they buy those drinks.

I'm not judging either way, just stating one of the reasons they gave for doing away with happy hours.

 

[bgcatty]

Given the way things are today, we can all use more happy hours with or without an adult beverage in hand!

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I don't think of it that way. I think of it more as putting guardrails in place where one's exercise of freedom becomes a violation of the freedom of another. It's not a matter of liking/disliking or approving/disapproving of the manner in which one exercises freedom, but rather about securing the rights, and exercise of freedom, of all individuals.

I remember driving one day, and someone on the radio used the phrase "You can't legislate morality" and that got me thinking about morality vs legislation. I think that legislation actually IS morality. It's that subset of morality that was decided to be fair and prudent to impose upon ourselves and each other. I think when people say "You can't legislate morality" what they really mean is that there is another subset of morality that doesn't rise to the level of importance or impact to include it in legislation.

 

[chipbennett]

I remember driving one day, and someone on the radio used the phrase "You can't legislate morality" and that got me thinking about morality vs legislation. I think that legislation actually IS morality. It's that subset of morality that was decided to be fair and prudent to impose upon ourselves and each other. I think when people say "You can't legislate morality" what they really mean is that there is another subset of morality that doesn't rise to the level of importance or impact to include it in legislation.

I adhere to that belief, that morality cannot be legislated. Legislation exists because there is a gap in morality. If everyone were perfectly moral, there would be no need for law. That said, our country is founded on an assumption of a baseline level of morality, and our controlling documents (Constitution and laws), which enshrine the rights and liberties of the individual, are not designed or suitable to substitute for a lack of that baseline of morality.

Thomas Jefferson:

• "No government can continue good but under the control of the people; and … their minds are to be informed by education what is right and what wrong; to be encouraged in habits of virtue and to be deterred from those of vice… These are the inculcations necessary to render the people a sure basis for the structure and order of government."

John Adams:

• "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
• "Public virtue cannot exist in a nation without private virtue, and public virtue is the only foundation of republics."

Samuel Adams:

• "Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. He therefore is the truest friend of the liberty of his country who tries most to promote its virtue."

George Washington:

• "Without virtue there can be no liberty."
• "Virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government."
• "Human rights can only be assured among a virtuous people."

James Madison:

• "To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea."

Benjamin Franklin:

• "Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom."

Others:

• "What is the best government? That which teaches us to govern ourselves." - Goethe
• "There is no liberty to men who know not how to govern themselves." - Henry Ward Beecher

A government that enforces morality is by its very virtue a totalitarian government, and must infringe upon individual liberty in order to accomplish its ends.

 

[Ingomike]

I adhere to that belief, that morality cannot be legislated. Legislation exists because there is a gap in morality. If everyone were perfectly moral, there would be no need for law. That said, our country is founded on an assumption of a baseline level of morality, and our controlling documents (Constitution and laws), which enshrine the rights and liberties of the individual, are not designed or suitable to substitute for a lack of that baseline of morality.

Thomas Jefferson:

• "No government can continue good but under the control of the people; and … their minds are to be informed by education what is right and what wrong; to be encouraged in habits of virtue and to be deterred from those of vice… These are the inculcations necessary to render the people a sure basis for the structure and order of government."

John Adams:

• "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
• "Public virtue cannot exist in a nation without private virtue, and public virtue is the only foundation of republics."

Samuel Adams:

• "Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. He therefore is the truest friend of the liberty of his country who tries most to promote its virtue."

George Washington:

• "Without virtue there can be no liberty."
• "Virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government."
• "Human rights can only be assured among a virtuous people."

James Madison:

• "To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea."

Benjamin Franklin:

• "Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom."

Others:

• "What is the best government? That which teaches us to govern ourselves." - Goethe
• "There is no liberty to men who know not how to govern themselves." - Henry Ward Beecher

A government that enforces morality is by its very virtue a totalitarian government, and must infringe upon individual liberty in order to accomplish its ends.

So therefore the leftist/marxists destruction of morality inevitably leads to totalitarianism…

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

From a basic standpoint, people who govern themselves do so after making the decision that self-government is desired, is doable, and is beneficial for the continued prosperity of the people and the government they create.

I know that it's my Asperger-brain that dissects the fine points of things differently, but the way I see it, self-government is, in it's simplest terms, a group of people who have decided to agree on a mission-statement-for-living-together and also decided on a set of rules to impose on themselves and each other in keeping with the mission-statement. The more like-minded the people of the group are, the fewer actual written rules would probably be required. But over time, as demographic perspective inevitably changes, a potentially greater percentage of the people would be expected to have a mind-set that differs substantially from the mind-set that created and agreed upon the original mission statement.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Where’s my 10 cent beer?

 

[ghuns]

Where’s my 10 cent beer?

Right here...