Bill Making Happy Hour Legal Heads To Governors Desk…

[chipbennett]

I'm on the fence too. I believe in freedom, but I also know that some people use their freedom in ways very different than I would even consider.

More freedom is always better. If "conservative" means "using the law to force people to use their freedom only in ways that I approve", then I'm not conservative, I guess.

 

[Ingomike]

Sure. I'm in favor of getting rid of all such laws.

Maximize freedom. Hold people accountable for acting responsibly in the exercise of that freedom.

I believe from studying history many laws in general were put in place because some people were hurting other people. Maximum freedom is also maximum ability to hurt others.

We have it so good because our ancestors cleaned up so much bad that none of us have really had to deal with what they dealt with. A hundred years ago people died from the food and beverage they bought pretty routinely. Today, even at places we name that are scary to eat, a few may be getting sick but no one is killing people in quantity.

The law barring the selling of alcohol based on time of day was put in place at a time when people were losing their loved ones and friends to drunk drivers. Their claim was retailers were selling drinks based on time creating an incentive to consume excess, which led to the inebriated purchasing more after they got plastered, the usually drove home.

My issue with the law is did they base it on emotion or data? Like my BAC example above, I suspect neither the implementation of the law nor its repeal ever looked at the data and both were for other reasons.

 

[chipbennett]

I believe from studying history many laws in general were put in place because some people were hurting other people. Maximum freedom is also maximum ability to hurt others.

Yes. That's how freedom works: "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." (Thomas Jefferson)

We have it so good because our ancestors cleaned up so much bad that none of us have really had to deal with what they dealt with. A hundred years ago people died from the food and beverage they bought pretty routinely. Today, even at places we name that are scary to eat, a few may be getting sick but no one is killing people in quantity.

Serving unsanitary food is inherently harmful.

The law barring the selling of alcohol based on time of day was put in place at a time when people were losing their loved ones and friends to drunk drivers. Their claim was retailers were selling drinks based on time creating an incentive to consume excess, which led to the inebriated purchasing more after they got plastered, the usually drove home.

So, did those laws prevent people with a penchant to drink and drive from carrying through with their intent to drink (at whatever time of day, with alcohol acquired from whatever source) and then drive?

My issue with the law is did they base it on emotion or data? Like my BAC example above, I suspect neither the implementation of the law nor its repeal ever looked at the data and both were for other reasons.

Right. In this regard, such malum prohibitum laws are no different from pretty much every gun control law on the books. They neither compel nor constrain people who willfully violate the law. They only serve to inconvenience and violate the freedoms of the law-abiding.

 

[Ingomike]

Yes. That's how freedom works: "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." (Thomas Jefferson)


Serving unsanitary food is inherently harmful.


So, did those laws prevent people with a penchant to drink and drive from carrying through with their intent to drink (at whatever time of day, with alcohol acquired from whatever source) and then drive?


Right. In this regard, such malum prohibitum laws are no different from pretty much every gun control law on the books. They neither compel nor constrain people who willfully violate the law. They only serve to inconvenience and violate the freedoms of the law-abiding.

I do look at alcohol differently because of its ability to alter the mind. No law will stop committed alcoholics, it is intended to level the field between impaired consumers and sellers.

I don’t care much about this law either way, though I probably benefit more with it as I will never make it to traditional happy hour but might like a drink special later or even at lunch.

Funny thing is most folks never even knew this was a law, retailers offered drink specials all day and food happy hours and nobody cared but retailers apparently believed they can make more money with the law repealed as that was stated as a reason for repealing.

 

[foszoe]

I'm on the fence too. I believe in freedom, but I also know that some people use their freedom in ways very different than I would even consider.

Many of these discussions, I find it helpful to turn the topic into a widget, then make the widget a firearm. If a person, typical INGOer I mean, would object to the law because it's a firearm, then its probably not at good law. Especially if the objection is the firearm is an inanimate object requiring the actions of an individual to commit an illegal act.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I always wondered why Sonnys bbq chose to build on the wrong side of the highway.

Sonny's is a chain. I haven't eaten at a ton of them, but I don't think I've ever seen one that served alcohol.

 

[BigMoose]

We need drive through Liquor stores. YES these are a thing...

 

[chipbennett]

I do look at alcohol differently because of its ability to alter the mind. No law will stop committed alcoholics, it is intended to level the field between impaired consumers and sellers.

Is it not already/still unlawful for a seller to sell alcohol to someone who is demonstrably drunk/impaired?

And in another ironic comparison to gun control laws: the laws on the books are not enforced, particularly with respect to consequences for committing unlawful acts. The diversion program that Lucas got for his recent incident is the same diversion program available to anyone. So, what good are the laws, when they aren't even enforced?

 

[R3p1lc3]

I think a persons freedoms should set precedent, saying that should a crime come from irresponsibility or negligence to that freedom those punishments should be rash.

 

[Ingomike]

Is it not already/still unlawful for a seller to sell alcohol to someone who is demonstrably drunk/impaired?

The law you cite treats impairment as an on/off switch rather than the gradual it is in real life. Judgement and inhibition are affected immediately. Many believe drunk/impaired is promoted by alcohol sales based on time that encourages speedy consumption to get another before time expires…

I get your points. Good discussion because it made me realize inconsistencies in the law. The 3pm deadline for alcohol sales also promotes drinking more before you cannot.

 

[littletommy]

Sonny's is a chain. I haven't eaten at a ton of them, but I don't think I've ever seen one that served alcohol.

I’m pretty sure I had a beer at one in Tennessee, I asked about beer at the one in Corbin and the ol girl kinda sadly said “sorry, you’re on the wrong side of the highway”.

 

[Shadow01]

In my misspent youth, it was a fairly common thing for folks to realize they had planned poorly and need beer on Sunday, which you had to cross the river to buy. So you'd buy a warm case or two and a cold get home beer or two...

A case of cans and a cold 40…

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

More freedom is always better. If "conservative" means "using the law to force people to use their freedom only in ways that I approve", then I'm not conservative, I guess.

Isn't that pretty much the philosophy behind all laws? To force or compel people to use their freedom only in ways that we approve?

 

[ghuns]

We need drive through Liquor stores. YES these are a thing...

View attachment 335835

As a kid, I spent a lot of summers with my grandparents in Ohio. A trip to the local drive thru was always the highlight of my day. It meant I was getting a candy bar and a pop and Gramps was getting a cold sixer of PBR and some more Lucky Strikes. By beer #3, the PG rating for his WWII stories was out the window in favor of a hard R.

 

[Ingomike]

We need drive through Liquor stores. YES these are a thing...

View attachment 335835

Just saw one near Lexington KY recently. Americans really are lazy…

 

[BigMoose]

Just saw one near Lexington KY recently. Americans really are lazy…

Nah this is just totally awesome.

 

[foszoe]

Just saw one near Lexington KY recently. Americans really are lazy…

not laziness. Its an efficiency gain.

 

[BigMoose]

not laziness. Its an efficiency gain.

Its also freakin awesome.

 

[foszoe]

Its also freakin awesome.

Yes. I lived in Columbus for a little over 3 years. Then I found out Bug lived there and so i left.

 

[BigMoose]

Yes. I lived in Columbus for a little over 3 years. Then I found out Bug lived there and so i left.

Bug?!?!?!?