Black Powder firearms discussion

[msuspartan]

I just posted a msg on the suggestions thread suggesting this very thread. I think there should be a thread as to the many inline and traditional hunters, enthusiasts and just plain smokepole lovers out there. This is the home of the NMLRA so why not?

 

[msuspartan]

To those who shoot BP, is there any interest in an Indiana State Muzzleloading Championship? I shoot with a couple of local groups near Indy but have wanted to get more people involved.
Any ideas, clubs to have a championship shoot and fairly centered in the state?
I have talked with Bob Voegle, Pres. of the NMLRA and he loves the idea especially since there is nothing like it here in Indiana.

Let me know your thoughts on this.

 

[indy1919a4]

I just posted a msg on the suggestions thread suggesting this very thread. I think there should be a thread as to the many inline and traditional hunters, enthusiasts and just plain smokepole lovers out there. This is the home of the NMLRA so why not?

Hello Greetings and Salutations,

Well I have heard of NMLRA.. But other then figuring out what the letters of the name are I do not know much about them.. So do tell more.. Also what is you favorite BP gun???? A photo is always nice

 

[msuspartan]

I am actually selling my Thompson Center .45 rifle to help pay for a custom build that I am currently building with a local gunsmith near Cicero. A .50 cal Lancaster Longrifle Flintlock. Can hardly wait to finish it. I am taking pics of the build tho'.
Am also kind of apprenticed to him as he is teaching me the ropes of restoration, building and engraving.
The NMLRA is the National Muzzle Loader Rifle Association headquartered in Friendship In, near Batesville. They are like the NRA but for blackpowder nuts like me!! They train, encourage, shoot and have a spring and fall shoot that have vendors, shooting camping etc available. Go to the NMLRA's website and go down there for some fun. Great people, great time and great organization. Top notch.

Also in Feb. (third weekend) at the Hamilton County Fairgrounds, there is a Antique/Replica firearms show with 240 tables of goodies, rifles, pistols, accoutrements etc. for sale. A lot of fun.

 

[msuspartan]

BTW, the NMLRA is a very family friendly organization with much to offer.

 

[indy1919a4]

I am actually selling my Thompson Center .45 rifle to help pay for a custom build that I am currently building with a local gunsmith near Cicero. A .50 cal Lancaster Longrifle Flintlock. Can hardly wait to finish it. I am taking pics of the build tho'.
Am also kind of apprenticed to him as he is teaching me the ropes of restoration, building and engraving.
.

On one of the episodes of "Shooting USA" They went to Friendship and they featured an older Gentleman who built Flintlocks by hand.. He Was grooving the barrel during the show.. Pretty neat..

Now I realize this is a loaded question.. There are so many variables depending on the furniture Etc, ETc, Etc.. you can spend as much as you want.. But do you have any idea what the range is for a hand built flintlock would be..????

Per Myself, I am a more off the shelf person.. Customized guns are cool, But heck I have so many wants.. Its hard to go to Customized Just yet..

 

[Jack Burton]

Hi guys...

Need a bit of help if you can. I do freelance writing and have been assigned an article on how to remove the bolster on a bp rifle. I know that will violate the warranty on new rifles but I am sure there are many that it can be done with.

The problem is I've never been a bp shooter... just plain ol' rifles and handguns.

If someone could walk me thru a couple of quick steps if that is all it takes it would certainly be helpful.

This is the basic article I am using for a reference...

black powder rifle build primer

 

[finity]

Believe it or not, the traditional lead round ball is more lethal on a single target than is pretty much anything conical I've seen. Imagine a .50 caliber round ball traveling at 1700fps and slamming into a deer, expanding to 2 to 2.5x its original diameter, and stopping on the far side: In other words, with a round lead ball, the energy of a higher-powered rifle is deposited in a wound channel the length of a handgun's wound channel.

However, the very thing that gives this thumping power is also the thing that limits range to 100, 125yds max: A sphere sucks with regard to ballistic coefficient. The BC of a sphere is largely dependent upon its speed, but one can estimate it using about .06. Suffice to say, the BC of a sphere is about half that of a .22 LR bullet.

Conicals were invented for war. They do not always kill well, but they certainly wound well. In .58 caliber, a Minie ball would be loaded with a weak powder charge of 60grns standard. This was done to prevent the skirt from blowing off. However, even with this weak powder charge, the Minie ball would go through three soldiers before stopping, taking all of them out of battle, whereas a round lead ball would hit a soldier, usually stop inside, and just kill him.

If a modern bullet from a muzzleloader does not expand, you've got the Minie ball all over again, only in a lesser caliber.

This is why I like to use round lead balls. As well, I almost never shoot beyond 50 yards with a muzzleloader, let alone 100 (though I'm confident in my ability out to further 125yds on deer and much further on a human adversary should it come to that with a blackpowder rifle). I have a few pure lead conicals, but honestly, I view them as a curio. I might shoot one to see what 350grns of lead feel like exiting a .50, but I can get almost two balls for one conical if I melt 'em down and cast 'em -- and they are more lethal, from my observations and reports form others, in ball form!

However, if you want to hunt cornfields, then a conical and maybe a modern inline makes better sense, though I personally would choose a .50 caliber Hawken or .45 caliber long rifle and a modern full-caliber cast bullet -- R.E.A.L. or maybe even a modified Minie they have out -- and a heavy charge of powder.

I can't believe you started a "caliber war" & transferred the one shot stop mythology to BP.

What exactly is "more lethal" anyway?

What has more energy? A 177gr PRB traveling at 1700 fps (1135ft-lbs) or a 250gr .45 cal bullet traveling at 2000fps (2200ft-lbs)?

The reason the PRB stops on the far side is because of that energy difference.

I've shot around 15 deer over the years with my inline ML's - starting with a CVA Buckhorn using .50 cal Buffalo Ball-ettes & now using a TC Omega using TC .45 cal saboted Shockwaves - & everyone of them has died. Very few ran more than 100 yards. A good number fell right where they stood. I only had to track one pretty far but that wasn't the bullets fault it was mine. I shot a little too far back & got into the gut.

On every one of those I shot with the saboted bullets I had good expansion as indicated by the HUGE exit wound.

My brother has recovered deer while using PRB & Buffalo Ball-ettes that had the bullet under the skin on the far side. I honestly wasn't impressed that much by the expansion of either the PRB or the Buffalo Ball-ette. I think your expansion claims of 2 - 2 1/2 times initial diameter is a little exagerated. I'm not saying it can't happen (hitting bone for example) but I don't think that's "typical". I think 1 1/2 it's initial size is more realistic (in order for the PRB to grow it's diamter to 2 times it's initial diameter it would have to flatten to .08" thick. To grow to 2.5 times it would end up being only .05" thick. That's quite a feat).

Conical bullets (the Minie) were developed because they were way more accurate & had a longer range than PRB therefore they were able cause more casualties than the shorter range, less accurate PRB (i.e. they could actually hit what they were shooting at).

As with the discussion of any caliber or type of round the bottom line in "stopping power" is shot placement followed by bullet weight & speed.

If you shot a soldier with a PRB through the vitals he likely would die. If you shot a soldier with a Minie ball through the vitals he likely would die. If you could shoot three soldiers standing in a line through the vitals with a Minie all three would likely die. If you shot a soldier in a non-vital area with a PRB he isn't going to magically die simply because he got shot with a PRB that stayed inside him.

My point here isn't to disparage the PRB. It has been killing deer (& people)for hundreds of years.

My point is that there are MANY advantages to using the modern conical bullets. Higher speed (therefore flatter trajectory), better ballistics (giving better accuracy), longer range & the use of high quality expanding bullets.

 

[Sgt 1371]

I am actually selling my Thompson Center .45 rifle to help pay for a custom build that I am currently building with a local gunsmith near Cicero. A .50 cal Lancaster Longrifle Flintlock. Can hardly wait to finish it. I am taking pics of the build tho'.
Am also kind of apprenticed to him as he is teaching me the ropes of restoration, building and engraving.
The NMLRA is the National Muzzle Loader Rifle Association headquartered in Friendship In, near Batesville. They are like the NRA but for blackpowder nuts like me!! They train, encourage, shoot and have a spring and fall shoot that have vendors, shooting camping etc available. Go to the NMLRA's website and go down there for some fun. Great people, great time and great organization. Top notch.

Also in Feb. (third weekend) at the Hamilton County Fairgrounds, there is a Antique/Replica firearms show with 240 tables of goodies, rifles, pistols, accoutrements etc. for sale. A lot of fun.

More details on the T/C 45 cal for sale?

 

[Sgt 1371]

Anyone attending the "Not so Grand Valley" event next week in Plymouth?

 

[Delmar]

Anyone attending the "Not so Grand Valley" event next week in Plymouth?

I don't know what that is?

 

[Sgt 1371]

Muzzleloader event. This will be my first time there. It is Aug. 5,6,7. I think the shooting is mostly on Saturday. Events include several shooting contests, primitive archery, hawk and knife, "Trapper's Crapper", a four man team event, etc.

 

[msuspartan]

As to getting a custom rifle, yes it does depend on what you want. Do you want a flintlock or a percussion. and then from there you go.
I am apprenticed to a gunsmith and just held a rifle worth over $22,500 so you CAN go crazy!! But then again you can find a good rifle under 5-600 dollars if you go to an antique gunshow. Many good shows out there. Also Track of the Wolf sells used rifles and pistols and many at a steal.

 

[msuspartan]

Of course many people want a good production rifle/pistol too and many out there that shoot very well too.

 

[indy1919a4]

As to getting a custom rifle, yes it does depend on what you want. Do you want a flintlock or a percussion. and then from there you go.
I am apprenticed to a gunsmith and just held a rifle worth over $22,500 so you CAN go crazy!! But then again you can find a good rifle under 5-600 dollars if you go to an antique gunshow. Many good shows out there. Also Track of the Wolf sells used rifles and pistols and many at a steal.

Looked at the track of the wolf items, of course all very nice..

 

[indy1919a4]

So does anyone know of someone who makes a cool looking Volley Gun perhaps a NOCK.. Not hung up on Historical accuracy as much as a nice wow factor..

 

[red_zr24x4]

I had posted a request in the general firearms section for the BP guys to pm me, I didn't want to post about a wtt/wts item i had in general areas. I just listed some pure lead in the South Bend area figured you guys casting your own round ball would like a first shot at it.

**Lead is gone**

 

[Sgt 1371]

I'm interested in pure lead.

 

[msuspartan]

Red,
Thanks for the posting on lead. Nice to have people offer it. I cast my own and nice to pick some 'extra' up every now and then.
With the EPA and other liberal tree huggers out there trying to ban it, it is a good thing to have extra.

Cheers, DonK

 

[Grizhicks]

First BP Reloads

All -- Reloaded my first BP shotshells and rifle rounds the past 2 evenings. The shotshells are 1-1/8 oz of 7-1/2 shots with about 68 grains of FFg (square loads, same volume of shot as powder), in paper shells and rolled crimp. The rifle rounds are 45 Colt; 250 grain RNFP bullets, over 33-34 grains of FFFg. CAS match this Saturday; we'll see how they do. -- Grizhicks