Bloomberg’s gun-control group vastly outspent the NRA to help Dems win in VA

[rob63]

It does make you wonder. Minority and migrant communities actually have a lot of conservative values. If the GOP was seen as all encompassing, they'd should regularly smash Democrat candidates. Unfortunately, there's a long history of coded rhetoric, that makes minorities/migrants believe they aren't welcome.

This is one of those things that conservatives find endlessly frustrating and I don't really know what we can do about it.

I used to participate in some online forums about the American Civil War that include people from all political backgrounds. I found that it was impossible to have a discussion of the history of "states rights" regarding the role of the federal government versus the states. If I even appeared to have any view of that role that could be interpreted as sort of sympathy towards the Confederacy I was suddenly speaking in code about how I wanted a return of Jim Crow, slavery, etc. I found it flabbergasting that anyone could believe that I actually wanted that just from trying to discuss the constitutional role of government in the 1860's and the part it played in the conflict.

I agree that too many Republicans have a history of saying stupid things, but I find it incredibly difficult to have any discussion with people that insist everything I say is some sort of code for something else. Unfortunately, Democrats have long seen how they can profit from it, and Republicans haven't figured out how to combat it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

This is one of those things that conservatives find endlessly frustrating and I don't really know what we can do about it.

I used to participate in some online forums about the American Civil War that include people from all political backgrounds. I found that it was impossible to have a discussion of the history of "states rights" regarding the role of the federal government versus the states. If I even appeared to have any view of that role that could be interpreted as sort of sympathy towards the Confederacy I was suddenly speaking in code about how I wanted a return of Jim Crow, slavery, etc. I found it flabbergasting that anyone could believe that I actually wanted that just from trying to discuss the constitutional role of government in the 1860's and the part it played in the conflict.

I agree that too many Republicans have a history of saying stupid things, but I find it incredibly difficult to have any discussion with people that insist everything I say is some sort of code for something else. Unfortunately, Democrats have long seen how they can profit from it, and Republicans haven't figured out how to combat it.

Absolutely, Biden's "they want to put you back in chains," vs Reagan's "strapping young buck." Both stupid, with both sides know exactly what they are doing/saying.

 

[Ingomike]

It does make you wonder. Minority and migrant communities actually have a lot of conservative values. If the GOP was seen as all encompassing, they'd should regularly smash Democrat candidates. Unfortunately, there's a long history of coded rhetoric, that makes minorities/migrants believe they aren't welcome.

Are we to pretend advertising does not work? For 50 years the democrat party has accused the republican party of being racist. They have spent billions perpetuating that very notion. Redefining racism all the way down from the text book definition to implied slights. Yes, republicans have said dumb things, many I think were wrong to say, but so has everyone, we are all human.

I believe a lager factor in minority democrat support is the fact the majority either live in democrat cities or emigrated there and are taught the above before they move around the country. But it may be changing, I expect Trump support from minority's to be unprecedented

 

[Kutnupe14]

Are we to pretend advertising does not work? For 50 years the democrat party has accused the republican party of being racist. They have spent billions perpetuating that very notion. Redefining racism all the way down from the text book definition to implied slights. Yes, republicans have said dumb things, many I think were wrong to say, but so has everyone, we are all human.

I believe a lager factor in minority democrat support is the fact the majority either live in democrat cities or emigrated there and are taught the above before they move around the country. But it may be changing, I expect Trump support from minority's to be unprecedented

For 50 years the Republicans haven't really tried all that hard to dispel the notion. Things like the Southern Strategy, which essentially saw parties flip, come to mind.

 

[Ingomike]

For 50 years the Republicans haven't really tried all that hard to dispel the notion. Things like the Southern Strategy, which essentially saw parties flip, come to mind.

I agree, I am pleased to see Trump making outreach in minority communities. I have heard that minority attendance at Trump rallies exceed their proportion of the population. The Campaign is making significant effort to win minority voters.

I have read that if African-American vote were 50-50 between the parties that there would be only a small group of democratic senators ever elected. That is why the democrats have to fear monger to keep them in the tent.

 

[wakproductions]

It does make you wonder. Minority and migrant communities actually have a lot of conservative values. If the GOP was seen as all encompassing, they'd should regularly smash Democrat candidates. Unfortunately, there's a long history of coded rhetoric, that makes minorities/migrants believe they aren't welcome.

Well said! Some of the friends I have who support Democrats actually have core values that align well with the Republican party. However, they have this image of Republicans being a party of racism and exclusion. They believe that some sort of ideological switch happened in the 60s after President Johnson passed some progressive civil rights legislation. Also, they associate Republicans with opposing gay marriage and other LGBT rights. Things like the "Religious Freedom Act" which Indiana unsuccessfully tried to push a few years ago are cited as examples. My Democrat friends don't see how Republicans could say they support "freedom" yet often align with religious groups that oppose LGBT.

 

[bwframe]

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Republicans failing to sell their vision or even standing up to criticism is nothing new. Not fielding candidates in something like a 1/4 of the seats seems like malfeasance.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/11/the_real_reasons_republicans_lost_virginia.html

(I posted this somewhere else too. Hopefully, it wasn't this thread).

 

[wakproductions]

Republicans failing to sell their vision or even standing up to criticism is nothing new. Not fielding candidates in something like a 1/4 of the seats seems like malfeasance.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/11/the_real_reasons_republicans_lost_virginia.html

(I posted this somewhere else too. Hopefully, it wasn't this thread).

Seriously, they ran a candidate named "Coward"? And he lost? lol

I like that article. Provides good reasoning to show that the party in that state is lacking good leadership and organization to mobilize voters. Maybe they've got a shot at coming back with a few changes from the top.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Well said! Some of the friends I have who support Democrats actually have core values that align well with the Republican party. However, they have this image of Republicans being a party of racism and exclusion. They believe that some sort of ideological switch happened in the 60s after President Johnson passed some progressive civil rights legislation. Also, they associate Republicans with opposing gay marriage and other LGBT rights. Things like the "Religious Freedom Act" which Indiana unsuccessfully tried to push a few years ago are cited as examples. My Democrat friends don't see how Republicans could say they support "freedom" yet often align with religious groups that oppose LGBT.

Being from a D family and being mentally entrenched in the party from birth, makes it VERY hard to break away.

I've told this story before here:

Many many people dont realize they are in the wrong party.


A great example of this was after the 2012 election, I was in one of my branch offices. The office manager asked who I voted for and I said "Johnson". She then proceeded to glow about how she voted for Obama. She was ESPECIALLY proud that she was a 3rd generation Democrat. "My grandma was a democrat, my mom is a Democrat, and I'm one too. Its a matriarchal legacy of sorts." The glow of pride was visible.


I asked her to scoot back from her pc and loaded up the worlds smallest political quiz. She took it and she turned white as a ghost. "This cant be! It says I'm a Libertarian! Thats impossible! This is one of those prank sites that no matter what you answer the results are the same, isnt it?"


It took much convincing that she was in fact, NOT a Democrat at heart. I could tell she was disappointed. After we finished the discussion she insisted it was wrong, and she was going to go back through later and answer differently to make sure the results would actually change. There was just absolutely no way she didnt fit squarely in the Democrat party. (she still didnt believe the results werent rigged)

 

[cbhausen]

Absolutely, Biden's "they want to put you back in chains," vs Reagan's "strapping young buck." Both stupid, with both sides know exactly what they are doing/saying.

I had to do some research to find out what you were talking about. I was only 14 when Reagan made that statement. If someone was to ask me to define the term “strapping young buck” I would have thought of it as complementary. But I reject the notion it’s equivalent to Biden’s race-baiting, complete with phony dialect to be more convincing. John Kerry did the same thing to ingratiate himself with hunters and Hillary did it too. Did Reagan make his statement in a phony hillbilly southern drawl?

Fast forward to today... do you think Trump is racist because there are fewer people on food stamps today? At what point does it become a positive that there are fewer people relying on others to foot their bill? And what about those who are selling their EBT cards for $.30 on the dollar to buy booze and drugs? You know they’re out there. I’ve seen it firsthand and I’m not even anywhere near the center of it. We live in a country where it’s okay to penalize our citizens for not having health insurance while giving it to those who sneak in illegally. Are you okay with that?

Still waiting for your expert opinion on the credibility of the so-called whistleblowers attorney...

 

[Kutnupe14]

I had to do some research to find out what you were talking about. I was only 14 when Reagan made that statement. If someone was to ask me to define the term “strapping young buck” I would have thought of it as complementary. But I reject the notion it’s equivalent to Biden’s race-baiting, complete with phony dialect to be more convincing. John Kerry did the same thing to ingratiate himself with hunters and Hillary did it too. Did Reagan make his statement in a phony hillbilly southern drawl?

Fast forward to today... do you think Trump is racist because there are fewer people on food stamps today? At what point does it become a positive that there are fewer people relying on others to foot their bill? And what about those who are selling their EBT cards for $.30 on the dollar to buy booze and drugs? You know they’re out there. I’ve seen it firsthand and I’m not even anywhere near the center of it. We live in a country where it’s okay to penalize our citizens for not having health insurance while giving it to those who sneak in illegally. Are you okay with that?

Still waiting for your expert opinion on the credibility of the so-called whistleblowers attorney...

The fact that you asked this question, and did so honestly, says more about your perception of people than Trump's. And for the record, I have never called Trump a racist.

As for the strapping young buck comment, perhaps you should research the phrase further.

 

[cbhausen]

The fact that you asked this question, and did so honestly, says more about your perception of people than Trump's. And for the record, I have never called Trump a racist.

As for the strapping young buck comment, perhaps you should research the phrase further.

I did. I know what it meant back then. That doesn’t mean I own it for that today. Is everyone who uses the phrase “the jig’s up” racist? Maybe they don’t know any better.

and I never accused you of calling Trump a racist. I asked you if you thought he was based on the stated policy and its results.

 

[jamil]

Being from a D family and being mentally entrenched in the party from birth, makes it VERY hard to break away.

I've told this story before here:

Many many people dont realize they are in the wrong party.


A great example of this was after the 2012 election, I was in one of my branch offices. The office manager asked who I voted for and I said "Johnson". She then proceeded to glow about how she voted for Obama. She was ESPECIALLY proud that she was a 3rd generation Democrat. "My grandma was a democrat, my mom is a Democrat, and I'm one too. Its a matriarchal legacy of sorts." The glow of pride was visible.


I asked her to scoot back from her pc and loaded up the worlds smallest political quiz. She took it and she turned white as a ghost. "This cant be! It says I'm a Libertarian! Thats impossible! This is one of those prank sites that no matter what you answer the results are the same, isnt it?"


It took much convincing that she was in fact, NOT a Democrat at heart. I could tell she was disappointed. After we finished the discussion she insisted it was wrong, and she was going to go back through later and answer differently to make sure the results would actually change. There was just absolutely no way she didnt fit squarely in the Democrat party. (she still didnt believe the results werent rigged)

A problem, not necessarily the problem, is the pigeonholing of the entire political spectrum into 2 or 3 holes. There's an entire spectrum of political proclivities but we have just two main parties. But that's beside the point I want to make, but related. I'd like to talk quite disparagingly about that quiz. I've taken the same quiz, and just took it again to refresh my memory of it. It's too broad to be useful, and it appears to be skewed towards libertarians. The broadness pigeonholes people into just a few convenient holes, libertarian, somewhat libertarian, or not libertarian. Her instincts were somewhat correct.

One, it does not ask questions from across the entire spectrum of political thinking. Instead it cherry picks questions of particular interest to libertarians, like legalization of marijuana, for example, while ignoring questions that are more important to other factions. That quiz can only place people in a few different places in the spectrum. With that quiz, it looks like the authors are trying to help you establish if you're libertarian, kinda libertarian, or not libertarian.

Also related to insufficient resolution, by asking overly broad questions without exploring why the person answered that way, a social justice warrior or a devout conservative Christian might give the same answer but for very different reasons. It is the very reasons that place them where they are in the spectrum, not specifically the "yes" or "no" answer they gave. For illustration, if I ask "Should the baker have to bake the gay cake?", and I only give yes or no as possible answers, it might rate a far right bigot as a libertarian. One might be, "no" because no one has a right to someone's labor. That's a libertarian answer. Another person might answer, "no" because God hates fags. That's not a libertarian answer.

I hate to put it this bluntly, but that quiz is bull****.

 

[jamil]

The fact that you asked this question, and did so honestly, says more about your perception of people than Trump's. And for the record, I have never called Trump a racist.

As for the strapping young buck comment, perhaps you should research the phrase further.

I'll take your word for it, because I'm not about to go digging for quotes. While I don't recall you saying it directly, I think this is a technicality. I'll say it this way. You've posted things such that it would be easy to infer that you think he is a racist. Think back to the discussion about Charlottesville. You said some things about what was reported by the media of Trump's comments about "some good people/some bad people". Turns out they left out some important statements, but that's beside the point. It seemed evident enough to me and probably to many others that you thought Trump was a racist.

You've accused Trump of speaking in code/dog whistles. I replied to things you've said about Trump and race several times with "I don't think Trump is any more racist than the average American." It seemed to me that you were taking the position that you thought Trump was/is a racist. Implying it, and then saying you've never said it, is only technically never saying it. It's possible that people misinterpreted your intent, but then you seem to obfuscate your intent often enough. I mean. It would help for you just to be straightforward. Say what you mean in a way that people know what you mean. Then people won't mistake your motives.

 

[jamil]

I did. I know what it meant back then. That doesn’t mean I own it for that today. Is everyone who uses the phrase “the jig’s up” racist? Maybe they don’t know any better.

and I never accused you of calling Trump a racist. I asked you if you thought he was based on the stated policy and its results.

This is an important point. Phrases borrowed from a more literal meaning to mean something else, eventually evolves to mean only the something else. Some common phrases are benign, others may have had a racist origin. But, critical race theory requires that every "institution" including idiomatic language, be problematized into some oppressor/oppressed relationship, and socially ban its use. I haven't researched "the jig is up" for myself, beyond some presumably well meaning site writing a list of common sayings that have a racist origin. Maybe it has that origin. Maybe not. But no one uses it today to mean that. For all I know, some critical race theorists "problematized" it. But if no one uses a phrase for a racist purpose, it's not racist to use it. It means what the speaker intends it to mean.

Saying "cotton pickin" is supposedly racist, or at least problematic, because it is supposed to refer to poor cotton farmers, many of whom were black. There's a page which asserts that it's offensive to use that phrase with someone whose heritage is that. Okay, tell you what. You're off the hook. I hereby give you permission to use that phrase. My dad quit school in the third grade to pick cotton with his brothers to help the family make ends meet. He lived in a one room dirt shack with 3 brothers and 2 sisters. They were literally dirt poor. He worked along side many black people picking cotton from the same field. My dad often said things like, "wait a cotton pickin' minute!" It obviously didn't offend him. It doesn't offend my heritage. Please use that phrase as liberally as you wish, there is no offense taken at all. If you say it I won't think you're trying to disrespect my heritage. To think that would be absurd. Just like critical race theory.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'll take your word for it, because I'm not about to go digging for quotes. While I don't recall you saying it directly, I think this is a technicality. I'll say it this way. You've posted things such that it would be easy to infer that you think he is a racist. Think back to the discussion about Charlottesville. You said some things about what was reported by the media of Trump's comments about "some good people/some bad people". Turns out they left out some important statements, but that's beside the point. It seemed evident enough to me and probably to many others that you thought Trump was a racist.

You've accused Trump of speaking in code/dog whistles. I replied to things you've said about Trump and race several times with "I don't think Trump is any more racist than the average American." It seemed to me that you were taking the position that you thought Trump was/is a racist. Implying it, and then saying you've never said it, is only technically never saying it. It's possible that people misinterpreted your intent, but then you seem to obfuscate your intent often enough. I mean. It would help for you just to be straightforward. Say what you mean in a way that people know what you mean. Then people won't mistake your motives.

What I have said about Trump, is that I don't know if he is racist, but that I believe he thinks a lot of his supporters are. I said that repeatedly, and that's not taking a technical position. It's an acknowledgment that he panders. With how poor your memory seems, I really wish you'd stop with the "deconstruct things Kut has said in the past."

 

[jamil]

What I have said about Trump, is that I don't know if he is racist, but that I believe he thinks a lot of his supporters are. I said that repeatedly, and that's not taking a technical position. It's an acknowledgment that he panders. With how poor your memory seems, I really wish you'd stop with the "deconstruct things Kut has said in the past."

It's not a matter of memory. I don't think you have made it all that clear. Sometimes you say things that don't seem all that congruent with other things you say in the context of the discussion at hand. It would help if you'd just make it clear. If you think people think you're saying something you're not saying at the time, it's helpful if you clarify what you're saying and what you're not saying.

 

[Kutnupe14]

It's not a matter of memory. I don't think you have made it all that clear. Sometimes you say things that don't seem all that congruent with other things you say in the context of the discussion at hand. It would help if you'd just make it clear. If you think people think you're saying something you're not saying at the time, it's helpful if you clarify what you're saying and what you're not saying.

No, you just have an epically bad memory, or you want to imprint what you think, rather than what you actually know. Which is always a bad idea. I have said more than once, twice.... occasions, how I thought Trump may not be racist, but that he panders to a segment of his supporters who he think are.

 

[jamil]

No, you just have an epically bad memory, or you want to imprint what you think, rather than what you actually know. Which is always a bad idea. I have said more than once, twice.... occasions, how I thought Trump may not be racist, but that he panders to a segment of his supporters who he think are.

I do recall you saying those things, and I also recall some other posts that seemed incongruent with that. So then I'm left having to reconcile it, and I judge it the way I judge it. I'm not going to go digging up your past posts to prove a point. That'd be weird.