Bloomberg’s gun-control group vastly outspent the NRA to help Dems win in VA

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  • Twangbanger

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    I find it absolutely incredible how every single county voting map is predictably bright blue at the city centers. I wonder what that says about how different urban lifestyles are from being in a less densely populated area. How does that kind of gap originate? Obviously the concerns of city people are radically different than those outside. How does it end up that way?

    I also see that term "demographic" change in politics used more frequently than ever these days. Is that just a code word for race? There's this guy on Youtube I watch occasionally whose channel is called The Red Elephants and he is obsessed with "demographics" being "destiny" for conservatism. He's terrified of what will happen when white people become a minority. He believes that once a district goes blue, it's blue forever. If that's the only strategy Republicans have to stay relevant - to play defense with demographics - that's just unsustainable.

    I don't know why Republicans consider it so difficult to sell their vision to groups of people who aren't "white". Can't they bridge the "demographic" divide by bringing some of those blue people over to the conservative side? After all, wouldn't the core outcomes desired by conservatives - economic prosperity and freedom from tyranny - be appealing to just about anyone? Someone in some Republican think tank needs to be examining on a very granular level why they just can't sell conservative ideas well in the cities.

    It ends up that way, because Black Americans in particular seem to have a sort of social "scripting" process in place, in which an older generation of the family tells the younger generation "how it is in this country:" they have "the talk" in which they explain that they cannot / will not get a fair shake in society, and that the federal government is the only entity which ever has or ever will consistently stand on their side and help them get ahead. The young person can literally grow up expecting a bad outcome. Then, when they experience a rude and unfortunate hurtful comment at the hands of some thoughtless white person (cf. Kut's famous INGO anecdotal account of the email that got sent around the police department - everybody has one), and the whole apparatus of society does not immediately come down like a lighting bolt on the offending person, the observer says, "Yep: pop was right. This country never will give a fair shake." The folklore has been validated, in their mind, and the cycle continues.

    To piggy-back onto the above social scripting process, liberal groups then tell their followers that concepts such as "small government" and "personal accountability" are code-whistles to racist white people. As such, the entire GOP idea-agenda becomes tainted by association. The GOP becomes increasingly unable to defend even a scrap of it, to people like your Democrat friends you're trying to convince.

    Well said! Some of the friends I have who support Democrats actually have core values that align well with the Republican party. However, they have this image of Republicans being a party of racism and exclusion. They believe that some sort of ideological switch happened in the 60s after President Johnson passed some progressive civil rights legislation. Also, they associate Republicans with opposing gay marriage and other LGBT rights. Things like the "Religious Freedom Act" which Indiana unsuccessfully tried to push a few years ago are cited as examples. My Democrat friends don't see how Republicans could say they support "freedom" yet often align with religious groups that oppose LGBT.

    A switch did happen: Lyndon Johnson saw the opportunity to place his signature on the "right side of history." And since people associate national conditions, successes, and failures with the identity of the person who was President at the time, LBJ permanently accrued credit for that position to the Democratic Party. (Notwithstanding the fact that some of racism's most ardent supporters at the time were members of that party).

    Regarding your more progressive examples of gay marriage and LGBT rights, to state it simply, the Civil Rights Movement which began for the benefit of people like Rosa Parks has had other unrelated causes grafted-onto it. Things like the issue of boys who want to win state track titles as girls, simply by filling out the paperwork differently. To make matters worse, conservative Black Americans who are privately abhorrent of such nonsense, and would never tolerate it in their own families, nevertheless stand aside and won't say a word about the movement started by Martin Luther King being used for this purpose. It isn't because they agree with it. They think it's as stupid as I or (presumably?) you do. It's that the American Civil Rights Movement has a self-normalizing characteristic to it: once a certain group has been benefited by it, they are forbidden to criticize any other group coming later seeking to benefit from it. Because they will be seen as traitors to the cause, a sort of ingrate who saw their own interests in life enhanced by something, but who will not stand for another group seeking to benefit from it. And so, this is how teenage boys wanting to sit in the girls' bathroom to pee became morally equivalent to Rosa Parks wanting to sit on a bus. If there were to develop a significant rift within the Civil Rights Movement on these points, the foolishness could be stopped. The GOP or others could claim some scrap of legitimacy for opposing it. And the Civil Rights Industry knows that - which is why they enforce the orthodoxy. Anybody who breaks ranks (eg. feminists vs. transgender females) gets the "Kanye Treatment."

    The American Civil Rights movement, which began as one of the great noble endeavors of humanity, has morphed into an unopposable wrecking-ball aimed at wiping out every last remaining vestige of personal accountability for one's choices. And politicians, companies, the GOP, you name it, are terrified of it, and run like hell the other direction as soon as it changes direction and heads towards a certain issue.

    Given the above, what can be concluded is that the only way the GOP can ever hope to shave off some of the Democratic friends you're describing, is to immediately repudiate and renounce every position they have on any past, present, or future "Civil Rights Issue" to be named later, cease to have an opinion on anything having to deal with preserving traditional attitudes on _any_thing, and morph into what basically amounts to the Libertarian Party. According to some accounts, this would include giving up on ideas like "small government" and "personal accountability," since we all "know" they're just talking about the sort of muscular Federal Government which stood on the side of people like Rosa Parks, and because such talk is dog-whistle cynically calculated to subliminally raise-up and pander-to aggrieved whites.

    I think you can see the corner the GOP is painted-in. They are reduced to being nothing more than the Party of Oligarchy. They only positions they can safely take, without being accused of being racists, are:

    1) Policies securing the benefits of Cheap Wages for American business (trade, immigration reform...)
    2) Neverending War - "keeping us safe."

    The fact that the above, as you mention, places the GOP on the side of doing nothing to combat concentration of power in the hands of big business, further seals their fate in the minds of the kinds of people you're trying to convince. On their worst days, they're racists; at their best, they're nothing more than reliable defenders of the Oligarchy.

     
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    jamil

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    Pretty much.

    Just to add to that. The mechanism by which the American Civil Rights movement was morphed into what I would call the social justice war machine was an outcome of critical race theory with some post modernism applied. One such idea in particular is the idea that every identity has a unique perspective on truth and therefore cannot be rebutted. You just have to accept it, because it's their truth. It only works for "oppressed" identities, it doesn't work for a majority identity. Those people are evil oppressors and must acknowledge and apologize for their privilege. You look at Civil Rights groups today and they're filled with that nonsense. Women can be men and men can be women. It's their truth and you can't disagree or you're a bigot. As this crept in, normal people, even normal people on the left, did not know how to deal with this, and they were just taken over. Reason and rational thinking are tools of oppression now, because oppressors use those tools to deny oppressed people their truths.

    Once that crept into the civil rights movement, people couldn't criticize it internally or externally. People are ostracized for daring to criticize the group. It's a powerful system where the mob is used to enforce these social rules. And it's not just the civil rights movement. It has infected many areas of society. Schools K-12, universities, not so much trades yet, but that's coming. Businesses. Media. Even churches. This is the heart of "Social Justice". The goal is not equality. The goal is to flip the perceived dominance hierarchy. No one really knows how to defeat it at this point. The mob powers it. If the mob can be turned against it, that's about the only way I see this being defeated. But that's really hard because the mob is made up of individuals who are also afraid of the mob. If we can get everyone to understand, the world they propose isn't livable, there's a chance.
     

    Twangbanger

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    ...If the mob can be turned against it, that's about the only way I see this being defeated. But that's really hard because the mob is made up of individuals who are also afraid of the mob. If we can get everyone to understand, the world they propose isn't livable, there's a chance.

    But what if that world really is liveable - it just isn't liveable for you? I believe we agree on the principle that society is not required to have a positive outcome for every individual. As you said, the "other side" just wants to flip the tables and change whose ox is getting gored. What if they believe "productivity" is simply not the correct organizing principle of a society? How do you portray the dangers and downsides of an anti-productivity social theme, to unambitious people who are already accustomed and prepared to live on less?

    I, like you, think most people would reject that. But it's not a slam-dunk, because the consequences for most people are simply still so far away, and they're not being presented with a clear choice between A and B. Most people don't think they're being presented with the choice of a mob-driven flip of social hierarchy. They just think they're being asked to "expand" opportunity to more people - to make society more fair. The average person really doesn't believe _anybody's_ ox is really getting gored yet. Gun-owning conservatives are the canaries in the extreme lowest tunnel of a very large coal mine. Most people can still see the daylight, because boys winning girls track meets simply doesn't affect them.
     

    wakproductions

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    It ends up that way, because Black Americans in particular seem to have a sort of social "scripting" process in place, in which an older generation of the family tells the younger generation "how it is in this country:" they have "the talk" in which they explain that they cannot / will not get a fair shake in society, and that the federal government is the only entity which ever has or ever will consistently stand on their side and help them get ahead. The young person can literally grow up expecting a bad outcome. Then, when they experience a rude and unfortunate hurtful comment at the hands of some thoughtless white person (cf. Kut's famous INGO anecdotal account of the email that got sent around the police department - everybody has one), and the whole apparatus of society does not immediately come down like a lighting bolt on the offending person, the observer says, "Yep: pop was right. This country never will give a fair shake." The folklore has been validated, in their mind, and the cycle continues.

    ...

    That's a really good explanation. It sounds like the political divide right now is deeply rooted culturally, and I don't know how or if it can be resolved. Also, I think you're right that the issue of civil rights has been hijacked by other causes and morphed down a slippery slope into some kind of absurdity. The Democrats are trying to embrace all of it, but I think that will lead to internal conflicts that are starting to appear. I think the one thing that I think is holding them together is that the "D" seems to represent something different to every person who votes Democrat, whether that perception is true of the individual candidate or not.

    I also have the feeling that to survive the GOP will change its rhetoric and be forced to take some sort of moderate stance in this evolution of the Civil Rights Movement to shave off some Democrats as you say. That might even lead to the fracturing of the GOP into something completely new. It's happened in history before. I'm not sure if that will lead to an official Libertarian Party, because like you point out they've got some details to work out in order to agree on the scope of government.

    What you said here makes me think of a former coworker in Chicago who used to hang out with our clique of friends at the company (we had a cohesive team). One time we had a political conversation about the riots in Missouri over the police shootings. I said something about crime stats and this dude got really offended and stopped talked to all of us. After the conversation someone told me that he got so offended because he was black and had a strong conviction that the police are racist, but I tried to argue with him an opposing viewpoint. I didn't even know he considered himself black because I couldn't tell from his appearance. But apparently he lived his live very self consciously about this, and made a big deal about how he couldn't wear a hoodie because he was afraid of getting shot by police or other racists. This worldview really deeply affected him and whatever I said conflicted with it so bad that he wouldn't even talk about Star Trek with me anymore after that. He was probably thinking "yup: pop was right!"
     

    jamil

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    But what if that world really is liveable - it just isn't liveable for you? I believe we agree on the principle that society is not required to have a positive outcome for every individual. What if the "other side" just wants to flip the tables and change whose ox is getting gored? What if they believe "productivity" is simply not the correct organizing principle of a society? How do you portray the dangers and downsides of an anti-productivity social theme, to unambitious people who are already accustomed and prepared to live on less?

    I, like you, think most people would reject that. But it's not a slam-dunk, because the consequences for most people are simply still so far away, and they're not being presented with a clear choice between A and B. Most people don't think they're being presented with the choice of a mob-driven flip of social hierarchy. They just think they're being asked to "expand" opportunity to more people - to make society more fair. The average person really doesn't believe _anybody's_ ox is really getting gored yet. Gun-owning conservatives are the canaries in the extreme lowest tunnel of a very large coal mine. Most people can still see the daylight, because boys winning girls track meets simply doesn't affect them. Now - when prime-time Olympics TV coverage shows the women's figure skating gold medalist in tights on the podium sporting more "junk" in her pants than a 100kg Judo champion? (Yeah, put that on a Wheaties box). It might "trend" for a while. But so far the trend is to laugh this stuff off and move on.


    There are a lot of aspects of side you're talking about here. I think the most pernicious one is the one pushing the postmodern/critical race theory stuff, because you can't fight it. It's like they've found a way to create a positive feedback loop in people's conscience that makes them helpless but to follow the crowd. People are finding out that it's not livable though. People get doxxed for nonsense. You ruin people's lives and they kinda learn, okay, there's something really wrong here. So, some people are coming around. It's certainly not a slam dunk. People are still very afraid of the mob. They just make it so there's no way to say they're wrong, without being steamrolled.

    The thing is, they're outnumbered. But they have control of so many institutions now, it's just pretty hard to stop. It seems to have spread through the large, more progressive cities, like fire through a dry California mountainside. The last talk we had with my SIL from Denver was a real eye opener. I can see the progression. Now she's starting to use the same terminology (Diversity/Inclusion/Equity). She's predictably triggered by the same kind of stuff. Even though sane people outnumber the insane ones, I don't expect that to last through the generation. Except. It does seem like counter-culture might save the West. Anti DIE (Diversity/Inclusion/Equity) is the counter culture now. It's not that they're conservative. It's that they're against the new dominant culture because it's now the dominant culture. It'd be hilarious if it I were just looking at it from afar and not living in it.
     

    jamil

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    Things are not going to get better. Witness the hatred of the urban leftwingers who consider themselves as the moral and intellectual elite of our country.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/uc-berkeley-instructor-rural-americans-bad-people

    Bad as that sounds, that's not a majority belief. But it's bad that he teaches philosophy, a popular choice among freshmen students rounding out their core credits. He probably won't have a majority bat****-crazy conversion ratio, because, who pays attention in philosophy class when you're just taking it to fulfill your humanities credits? But, he'll get enough to inflict the world with his nonsense.

    "I unironically embrace the bashing of rural Americans," Kernion wrote in a now-deleted tweet. "They, as a group, are bad people who have made bad life decisions...and we should shame people who aren't pro-city."

    He hasn't asked himself before teaching this to students, "What if I'm full of ****?"

    Shame can work both ways, **********. The other side gets the mic and yer gonna be ****ed.
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    Bad as that sounds, that's not a majority belief. But it's bad that he teaches philosophy, a popular choice among freshmen students rounding out their core credits. He probably won't have a majority bat****-crazy conversion ratio, because, who pays attention in philosophy class when you're just taking it to fulfill your humanities credits? But, he'll get enough to inflict the world with his nonsense.

    "I unironically embrace the bashing of rural Americans," Kernion wrote in a now-deleted tweet. "They, as a group, are bad people who have made bad life decisions...and we should shame people who aren't pro-city."

    He hasn't asked himself before teaching this to students, "What if I'm full of ****?"

    Shame can work both ways, **********. The other side gets the mic and yer gonna be ****ed.

    I fully expect him to starve himself to death then because guess where 99% of the food comes from? (Hint: It's not the grocery store.)
     

    Brad69

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    The NRA was busy picking out Pepe Lapierre’s shoes and getting his wife’s hair done or whatever the “elite” spend money on. They didn’t care what happens in Virginia as long as the money is flowing.
    How many actually believe the NRA is a political power player with that dude at the top?
     

    Ark

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    Funny how we never hear Democrats complain about "money in politics" anymore.
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    Does Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders not exist in your Universe?

    I think they probably complain about not enough money being in politics since they seem to want to get their grubby little paws into everyone else's wallets to pay for "Medicare for All", "Green New Deal" and "Free College for All".
     

    Lex Concord

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    Leadeye is correct. To see with your own eyes what occurred look at the first map on this page.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/08/us/politics/virginia-governor-results-analysis.html

    There is very little of the red-orange in a bold color, the blue is bold in many places. It is clear to see the enthusiasm gap on the map. That tends to mean unenthusiastic candidates running against a headwind of demographic change. Few winners want to quit what they are winning at and run for an office they're are likely to lose.

    Looks oddly familiar...

    https://www.theindychannel.com/news...fferences-in-2015-2019-indianapolis-elections
     

    Lex Concord

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    I did. I know what it meant back then. That doesn’t mean I own it for that today. Is everyone who uses the phrase “the jig’s up” racist? Maybe they don’t know any better.

    and I never accused you of calling Trump a racist. I asked you if you thought he was based on the stated policy and its results.

    https://knowyourphrase.com/jig-is-up
     

    Lex Concord

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