Box Store guns are different?

[Stickfight]

Perhaps. I've heard it the other way, where walmart demands that the goods be sold for a maximum price or walmart won't stock them on the shelves. That's a walmart thing to me.

My brother's company was a WalMart supplier. They regularly came to him and demanded he reduce his price by a few percent. At some point he could no longer accept the loss of profit, so he refused to go any lower, and WalMart eventually dropped him.

The problem comes when the WalMart portion of a supplier's business is too big to walk away from. If you've hired more employees, bought more equipment, expanded into new buildings, you might not be able to take the hit to volume. WalMart always tries to put themselves in the position of their suppliers needing them more than they need the supplier, which gives them enormous leverage. They even offer expansion assistance to smaller suppliers to encourage them to grow and become more dependent.

But everyone who does business with them does so voluntarily. From the suppliers to the employees to the customers. WalMart doesn't force anyone to do anything.

 

[JimboCX]

I know certain things that Walmart or other big box companies sell are a lower end of what the more local companies sell. I know that the bicycles they sell are an extremely cheaper in components and build. As for guns, it seems plausible.

I have known companies that say the same as Stickfight and I agree that those companies choose to do business with Walmart. Walmart will help expand, yada yada yada. What Walmart does to those companies is give them a sense of security. Those companies choose to put all of their eggs in one basket and Walmart keeps squeezing them and squeezing them to drop their prices and meet a particular margin. Once those companies can no longer meet their margins, then Walmart drops them. I think that is unethical. Walmart plays both sides of the coin.

 

[Leo]

I negotiated a contract to a large chain for my employer (Not walMart but just as bad) Those supplier contracts are negotiated a year of two in advance. The price the store is paying in 2013 may have been negotiated in 2011. As production costs increase, the manufacturer just has to eat the costs. When they renegotiate for another season, they demand that you drop the price or they will drop you as a supplier. They will willingly run a manufacturer out of business for good for this seasons profit margin. It is just that cut and dry. Retail is cut throat all the way.

One chain demanded we wait 120 days for payment with no penalty until 180 days. In other words, they NEVER actually own the stock on the shelf. They make the profit up front and maybe you'll get paid.

I do not know of an example in firearms, But I do have direct knowledge that the Major appliances are specifically cost engineered for the discounters. That is why identical appearing machine model numbers are not the same. It my look like a speed queen, and may even have a "built by speed queen" sticker on it, but it is definately joe chong quality internals.

 

[Snapdragon]

I do not know of an example in firearms, But I do have direct knowledge that the Major appliances are specifically cost engineered for the discounters. That is why identical appearing machine model numbers are not the same. It my look like a speed queen, and may even have a "built by speed queen" sticker on it, but it is definately joe chong quality internals.

Yeah, I've heard that about the bikes sold at WalMart. The $200 Schwinn sold at WalMart is nothing like the $350 Schwinn sold by a Schwinn dealer.

 

[Butch627]

It is well documented that some Dewalt power tools at Home Depot have a HD prefix on their part number and have lesser components inside as compared with the same part number without the HD prefix sold elsewhere. I doubt that it is an isolated instance. If Home Depot can get it done with tools why couldn't walmart with guns and ammo? There was a frontline report on Walmart and what it did to Rubbermaid years ago, after watching it I have done everything I can to avoid walmart

 

[red_zr24x4]

Seems to me a firearms manufacturer would not make an inferior product for certain store and open themselves up to being sued when/if someone was injured.
More likely, Wally world tells them "we will buy x amount, but will only pay x amount".
The manufacturer then skimps on finish, Wood quality etc. The steel and structural integrity would be the same wherever you bought it.

 

[tjh88]

I've hear that for years on tires, batteries and all sorts of products. Never seen any proof though. I don't think its true but wouldn't surprise me too much either.

 

[timsdl72]

Meijer does the same as far as pushing for lower prices or requiring suppliers to be able to supply a minimum amount of a product. Even their "local" produce is only local in the sense of a five state area! BTW...the story regarding a different product? Same BS they tell about John Deere riders sold at box stores or a dealer. It's a story told by local shops who are running scared of the big stores rather than upping their service game. They've figured out that some consumers are purely price shopping and don't care about service.....up front anyway. Story always changes when something breaks. INGO is full of complaint forums from people who price shopped and then cried when their big box didn't provide service. DUH!!! Poor shopping choices will get you ridiculed!!!

 

[Farmritch]

I would not say the guns are made cheaper but it is true that wall mart , Dicks and the old Kmart did and in fact do contract with the makers.
I have a matched pair of 10/22's that the model number is 1022WM and yes WM does mean wall mart.
You can research the models right from the ruger site.
They are stainless with a black standard synthetic stock and i cant remember if the sights or swivels were different. Other rifles I looked at dicks or Dunhams had ruger molded in the stock and it was not a full stock.
Cheaper? Less Quality? I do not think so as there is a liability factor here.
But a contracted lot of a certain style to make it less expensive. Yes.
This has been a practice for years. Anybody remember the senica green nylon 66's that K mart used to sell?
That was the only place that sold them.
I also believe they had their own trim of Rem 700's
i know for a fact that after sears quit selling their own branded/labeled firearms they also contracted to build on a certain specification.
.
If you don't have a record to run on you run Down your opponent was a very intelligent comment made by someone reading a TelePrompTer a few years ago.
I hope this helps answer your question.

 

[Cameramonkey]

But doesnt walmart FORCE the manufacturers into making a cheaper product for sale in their stores??

Yes. I watched a documentary on this. You pitch your product to the buyers. They tell you the cost is too high. If you can't bring it down due to YOUR cost of manufacturing, they offer to hook you up with their Chinese suppliers that CAN produce your widget cheap enough. Sickening.

The reason Walmart can offer you a shotgun or whatever cheaper is because they can buy in bulk. How many walmarts are there in this country? If they buy 1000 colt AR's, they get a nice discount, your LGS probably only buys two, three? So they don't get that bulk discount, and they can't afford to only break even or make 10% profit on the rifle if it's put on sale. These numbers are just examples, I don't know how many AR's your LGS has or how much Wally World makes on them, nor do I care. Thank you.

+1

Yeah, I've heard that about the bikes sold at WalMart. The $200 Schwinn sold at WalMart is nothing like the $350 Schwinn sold by a Schwinn dealer.

in some cases this IS the case. In those cases you will notice the manufacturers model number is slightly different than the one you find elsewhere.

Butt typically the slight price differences are due to bulk purchases and the buyers forcing the manufacturer to accept less for their product. "You want $250 for this? If you want us to sell it we will give you no more than $225. You DO want to sell your product in thousands of stores across the country, right? If that's the case you can sell more for less."

 

[BGDave]

I do remember a green laminate stock on Ruger rifles that was said to be a Walmart exclusive. Now, I know you saw some new ones at local gun shops. I know of one in particular that regularly stocked his Rugers from Walmart.

 

[Leo]

Same BS they tell about John Deere riders sold at box stores or a dealer. It's a story told by local shops who are running scared of the big stores rather than upping their service game.

I actually bought a John Deere rider (model 111) from a mower shop instead of a John Deere dealer. For the first three years, something was always failing. The dealer did not have parts for the 111 but knew which parts from a 108 or a 112 (that they sold) would fit. After a while, I think all the moving parts under it were replaced with the parts that would have been on a dealer model. It didn't break down after that. When I bought it I figured 11hp or 12 hp, what's the difference for my lawn?

I got a Clothes dryer that was the same story, after a while everything had been replaced with good parts and it did not break down anymore. I learned the hard way when I was young and broke.

Now I get power equipment from a real dealer, appliances from the authorized appliance dealer, legal advice from real attorneys and religious advice from real ministers. Way less problems in the long run.

 

[churchmouse]

I would suggest that, just like in our politics, "we" have sold America out. The Walmarts and the manufacturers have just provided what the consumer demanded.

To some extent yes. The real reason many things have gone off shore is Gov. intervention and regulations. The company's want to blame the unions but that is only a very small part of this whole thing.
Profit is the big killer. If you can make and ship something from that far away and still make more money on it and sell it cheaper there is more to it than meets the eye.

 

[timsdl72]

To some extent yes. The real reason many things have gone off shore is Gov. intervention and regulations. The company's want to blame the unions but that is only a very small part of this whole thing.
Profit is the big killer. If you can make and ship something from that far away and still make more money on it and sell it cheaper there is more to it than meets the eye.

+1
It's also consumer driven. How many people have driven across town to save $.05 per gallon on gas? Never mind the fact that it's a WHOLE DOLLAR saved if you have a 20 gallon tank. But the mom and pop gas stations disappeared due to this very sort of thing. Consumers demand the cheapest price and for the most part, care far less about the service. We complain when it's not available but we're unwilling to front the cost for having that service provider available. Matter of fact, we've driven to costs so low that the only help a retailer can afford to keep on the payroll is a teenager who barely knows how to keep his pants above his underwear.

 

[churchmouse]

This is a question of balance. Profit versus sales.

 

[danielson]

My brother's company was a WalMart supplier. They regularly came to him and demanded he reduce his price by a few percent. At some point he could no longer accept the loss of profit, so he refused to go any lower, and WalMart eventually dropped him.

Good, Im glad he had enough intergity to say no, and walk away. This is what every company should have done, instead of going to extremes to lower operation costs, in order to meet their demands, and still make fat bank. Such as replacing humans with machines, and sending their manufacturing facility to mexico. He clearly has more fortitude than all the big names did.

The problem comes when the WalMart portion of a supplier's business is too big to walk away from. If you've hired more employees, bought more equipment, expanded into new buildings, you might not be able to take the hit to volume. WalMart always tries to put themselves in the position of their suppliers needing them more than they need the supplier, which gives them enormous leverage. They even offer expansion assistance to smaller suppliers to encourage them to grow and become more dependent.

But everyone who does business with them does so voluntarily. From the suppliers to the employees to the customers. WalMart doesn't force anyone to do anything.

No, they ask too much of manufacturers, in order to facilitate this disease the average American has, to always have something new, and shiny. Just because they cant afford new and shiny, doesnt mean they cant have it right? So everything from the explosion of credit agencies, to the cheapening of products, was undertaken by retailers and banks, in order to exploit this trait, to make themselves rich. The problem is, no one told them NO!!

I negotiated a contract to a large chain for my employer (Not walMart but just as bad) Those supplier contracts are negotiated a year of two in advance. The price the store is paying in 2013 may have been negotiated in 2011. As production costs increase, the manufacturer just has to eat the costs. When they renegotiate for another season, they demand that you drop the price or they will drop you as a supplier. They will willingly run a manufacturer out of business for good for this seasons profit margin. It is just that cut and dry. Retail is cut throat all the way.

One chain demanded we wait 120 days for payment with no penalty until 180 days. In other words, they NEVER actually own the stock on the shelf. They make the profit up front and maybe you'll get paid.

I do not know of an example in firearms, But I do have direct knowledge that the Major appliances are specifically cost engineered for the discounters. That is why identical appearing machine model numbers are not the same. It my look like a speed queen, and may even have a "built by speed queen" sticker on it, but it is definately joe chong quality internals.

Absolutely! Everything available at your average retailer, the big box places, has been made cheaper. None of the big box stores are above this. So people who hate Home Depot, but LOVE lowes, do so out of pure emotion, because of some bad experience they had. Theyre just as bad. Its the only way for a company to make it that far these days. Its like my problem with presidential cantidates. The reason I dont like any of them, is because NO ONE stays in politics THESE DAYS, that long, and doesnt become corrupted.

Seems to me a firearms manufacturer would not make an inferior product for certain store and open themselves up to being sued when/if someone was injured.
More likely, Wally world tells them "we will buy x amount, but will only pay x amount".
The manufacturer then skimps on finish, Wood quality etc. The steel and structural integrity would be the same wherever you bought it.

EXACTLY


Hell, I blame everyone for where we are today.
Its the retailers fault for putting profit margin above morality, in order to make themselves rich.
Its the banks fault for giving the means to easily facilitate this.
But mainly, Its the average citizens fault, for forgetting all the things that really matter in life, and replacing them with crap.

Its because we have no moral structure anymore, and its been getting worse for decades.
Everyday we wake up, and this is alittle less like America, and we adapt and overcome, its what we do, having the day to day perspective eases the effects of the change.

If you went to sleep in 1955, and woke up this morning, you'd vomit your spleen out, just from taking one look around.

 

[SERparacord]

Where's bunnykid when you need him!

 

[Hoosier Gal]

It sounds like the gun store owner wanted to make a sell that could otherwise go to walmart. Personally I wouldn't support walmart when there are other options.

The "always low prices" comes with it's own detriment to local competitors. There is a documentary showing their business practices and how it affects the local economy and the suppliers that choose to do business with Walmart. That's why the majority of their merchandise is now made in china.

Anyone remember when Walmart sponsored Made in the USA products as their slogan?

 

[Leo]

There was a Book titled "The great discount dilusion" that was required reading for business school students back in the early '70's. It is out of print, but there should be some copies still around. EVERYTHING the author said about the long term effects to society came true. It was like the guy was a prophet. Basically it was that as the cheap junk part of the market grows, it squeezes out the good stuff. Eventually all that is available will be junk, but the prices will eventually come back up and then you will be paying the same price for junk that good stuff used to cost. I cannot find my copy, but will buy another when I find it.

 

[danielson]

It sounds like the gun store owner wanted to make a sell that could otherwise go to walmart. Personally I wouldn't support walmart when there are other options.

The "always low prices" comes with it's own detriment to local competitors. There is a documentary showing their business practices and how it affects the local economy and the suppliers that choose to do business with Walmart. That's why the majority of their merchandise is now made in china.

Anyone remember when Walmart sponsored Made in the USA products as their slogan?

Why is the majority of products sold at lowes made in china then? Or home depot? Or the grocery store. Hell half the bottles and containers, your food comes in, was made in good ole China. I suppose thats Walmarts fault too?
How about all of the scrap paper and metal we ship off to China, just to buy it back from them, in all of our products, because the government wont let US recycle it, using methods that are not made prohibitively expensive, out of environmental concerns. Of course we dont care about the environment over China, hell we even help them build power plants that dont meet our EPA requirements. So out of one side of their mouths were told its fine to mess up the environment, as long as its not over the US. Out the the other side of their mouths we are told that GLOBAL warming exists, and its our polluting thats causing it. Which is it?

Its so much easier to just demonize the easy target, and move on, than to think about the REAL problem, and deal with the frustration in the fact that you cant do anything about it.