Boy Scouts of America deal another blow to boyhood

[ATM]

... I seek truth by asking questions.

Most of INGO finds that intolerable. I like it.

 

[Tombs]

The BSA screwed the pooch on this one. Chief Scout Executive Michal Surbaugh was in Indy today to meet with our local council. They are having a meeting with all the District Executives on Monday to discuss this stupid stupid decision. The BSA made this policy change, without first having leadership training in place, without informing the Councils so they could be prepared for the onslaught of calls from concerned parents, or even discussing this with the Charter Unit Organizations. They blew it. They know they blew it.

In my NSHO they should have just opened Cubs Scouting to all boys and girls. Period. Instead this made this a transgender issue. That was DUMB.

There will be a lot of scouts and adult volunteers leaving the program over this one. We lost a lot when they decided that homosexual leaders were ok...this will be worse. The local council in Indy lost between 16-18 scouting units the last time. Fees are up, membership is down, and this is just another log on the fire that was almost under control.

Nice Job Mr. Surbaugh. Nice job.

You hit the nail on the head.

If society has decided that genders should no longer create boundaries, then we should just do away with the boundaries in the first place. Trying to decide if someone is 1 of a billion genders to be able to join some club is just stupid.

The alternative is discrimination based on SEX and not on GENDER, since gender has now been hijacked to mean what someone wants it to only when they want it to.

While the concept of girls in the boyscouts seems like a problem for people of our generation, the next generation being raised with less sexual segregation might not have as much of a problem with it as we think they will. Things tend to stop being special or raise curiosity when they were never a mystery in the first place. In many aspects, this next generation seems to be far more critically minded than the millennials.

 

[hog slayer]

I think the fact that even so called Christian can't agree on what bible stats speaks volumes, they can't even agree on which version of the bible is the true version. This started with a transgender kid wanting to join the Scouts, than went into Gays, and the bible so bought in and of course jesus figure, so I asked the question what did jesus say about gays, still haven't gotten an answer, some bible verse from some letter some person wrote about the subject so far.

Originally Posted by singlesix Answer the question. What did Jesus say about Gays (OK from the one true version of God's Word) and are you saying the Old Testament is no longer applicable. Since you bought it up, what is the one true version of God's Word and can I get a copy?
Genesis 18:20, 19:5, Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, Roman's 1:26-27, 1 corinthians 6:9-10, and 1 Timothy 1:10 should get you a solid start

Thought I answered this a while back. Here it is again.

 

[gregr]

I think the fact that even so called Christian can't agree on what bible stats speaks volumes, they can't even agree on which version of the bible is the true version. This started with a transgender kid wanting to join the Scouts, than went into Gays, and the bible so bought in and of course jesus figure, so I asked the question what did jesus say about gays, still haven't gotten an answer, some bible verse from some letter some person wrote about the subject so far.

It`s a true pity you`re so hostile to the Bible, and to truth. I`m not a "so called" anything, I am an Evangelical Independent Baptist, and as I pointed out to you before, there is only one version of the Bible, that can be found in several different translations. Much of the difference of opinion about the Bible is due to some who really have no business being a teacher, and it`s vital that one be a proper teacher in order to correctly present the Bible. One must be grounded in the slang and social customs of the time period to be able to properly interpret Gods` Holy Word. Then, everything must be presented, and taken in it`s appropriate context. When someone uses Scripture focused on just on verse, ignoring the verse prior to, and ahead of a verse, it`s usually out of context. And some, who are hostile to the Lord, intentionally misrepresent and twist Scripture. Satan has much at stake, and is more than happy to help distort and pervert Gods` Truth. I would be very careful to not, knowingly or otherwise, be a pawn of Satan.
As to what Jesus personally said about Gays, you have to look at the Trinity overall. Hog Slayer gave you Scripture in which the Lord implicitly speaks to His view of that activity, but it appears you have no intere4st in anything that doesn`t fit within your agenda. Christ, as far as I know, never spoke directly to that matter, but God the Father made everything crystal clear. You can remain angry. You can remain hostile. But now, you cannot claim to remain ignorant of the Truth.

 

[printcraft]

Jesus told us that life and being born is a gift from God. He also said that eunuchs (which was used to refer to homosexual men) were that way form birth. So why would the almighty God create these morally inferior abominations?

That thread title though....

 

[Bill of Rights]

Guys, this has appeared to me to be getting more and more heated and more and more emotional. The subject is the BSA and their rule change, not whether or not there is a God or what He had to say about this, that, or whatever, nor, as George Carlin once said, "My God has a bigger d*** than your God".

The mod staff as a whole do not want to stop religious discussion again. As divisive a topic as it is, though, keep this up and that may be something we look at again.

Take that as you wish, but at this point, just to make it official, I'm making this an in-thread warning.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[gregr]

THAT was unnecessary...

 

[LPMan59]

THAT was unnecessary...

But not untrue

 

[churchmouse]

THAT was unnecessary...

OK.....so you see this as un-needed. An example was made. By the staff.

Now, would you like to discuss that with me.

 

[Cpt Caveman]

This organization is growing due to the Boy Scouts poor decisions.

https://www.traillifeusa.com/

Didnt read all the posts so someone may have already posted this link.

 

[Bill of Rights]

THAT was unnecessary...

It should all be unnecessary, Greg.

See, way back when, when Fenway placed the ban on religious discussion, we had people claiming that INGO was "banning God". Considering the mod staff at the time, that was laughable, or would have been if it wasn't so bloody sad. One example I thought of, though don't recall if I said or not, is that not every conversation has to be an attempt to "win souls" for God. I understand that some religions do expect you to go out into the world and do exactly that. For me, my belief, though, God doesn't need us to win souls for Him that are already His. One need not try to "save" the traffic cop that pulled him/her over, nor the supermarket checker.

I celebrate the fact that people have their beliefs. It is when they try to make their beliefs into everyone's beliefs, rather than "live and let live" or just letting everyone be responsible for their own choices regarding their own eternal salvation, that I take issue with it.

You might believe that my soul is forever damned to the lake of fire, because I was raised Jewish and have never once prayed to nor recognized any Deity in Jesus of Nazareth, nor do I expect that fact to change in my lifetime. That is your choice. Let's be honest, though: Do you think in this day and age that ANYone has "not heard the Good News"? Does anyone still need to be told of your belief that He died on the cross for all of our sins?

As for my George Carlin comment, listen to his thoughts sometime. One reason he was such an influential comedian is that he took thoughts and turned them into words that made people think and say, "Oh. Huh. I never thought of it in those terms, but I can't argue with the facts he presents." He was saying that millions upon millions of people throughout history have died because they gave the wrong answer to the God question:
"Do you believe in God?"
"No"
(shooting noise) "Dead."

"Do you believe in God?"
"Yes."
"Do you believe in MY God?"
"No."
(shooting noise) "Dead."

At this point he delivered the line to which you objected. He was speaking historically, saying that people have, for that reason/belief, gotten into arguments and fights and have even killed one another... a pattern we see amongst the terrorists all over the news. Their belief is that we who do not believe as they do must either convert, be subjugated, or die.

The mod staff of INGO is understanding of the fact that people can converse and discuss differences without getting into that mindset. It is my understanding that this is the only board that texkev owns and runs that still allows these discussions to happen at all (I could be mistaken on that.) I'm sorry that my repetition of Mr. Carlin's comment offended you. Personally, I find it more offensive that people still believe that way than I do that someone described that behavior. This comment refers to people in general, not specifically any one person in particular.

I hope this helps explain both the comment and the thinking behind it.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Old Prof]

I haven't read this entire thread, so my apologies if I repeat something.

The scouts already allow girls into Venture Crews, which are 14 - 21 years old. These run parallel to the Troop organization, so a Boy Scout has the choice of being in an all boy or mixed group. I don't really want to see girls in troops because I think there is value in boys being boys just around boys. I know the old fart typing this acts differently at times in the company of women than in the company of men, and I enjoy both situations. I suspect boys are the same way. But, it is quite possible that future generations may not feel this way.

As for not having leader training in place, I still haven't see the guidelines for how gay scouts are to be integrated into scout campouts. For girls on Venture campouts, there are strict requirements for number of male and female leaders, and separation of the girls' and boys' tents. There are, as far as I know, no such rules for gay scouts. And this is a worry not so much because I fear gays trying to do something with a non-gay scout, but with gays being unfairly treated. As an example, on campouts when asking a scout how they sleep I've had them say several times, "ok, but Bob kept rolling over on top of me." I usually advise they might want to pitch their tent on a more level site, or rotate their positions in a tent. If Bob were gay, there might be sexual implications wrongly assumed. I always let the boys pick who they tented with, which minimizes these things, but minimizing is not eliminating.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The Boy Scouts of America's board of directors has unanimously agreed to welcome girls into the Cub Scout program and to forge a path for older girls to pursue and earn the highest rank of Eagle Scout, the organization said Wednesday.

Boy Scouts will allow girls to join - CNN

So, now will it be the "Scouts of America"?

 

[Hkindiana]

Think of all the money certain people wii lose once the slave labor of the cookie sellers switch over to the "other"scout club. Or, will the boys now be spending the majority of their time selling cookies?

 

[eldirector]

Think of all the money certain people wii lose once the slave labor of the cookie sellers switch over to the "other"scout club. Or, will the boys now be spending the majority of their time selling cookies?

Cookies AND Popcorn?

Well, at least I can buy it all from one non-gender-specific kid.

 

[Liberty1916]

This issue was addressed 45 years ago.

 

[dnurk]

If you read the announcement they're letting local Cub Scout packs decide how they want to handle it but they are having separate dens for boys and girls. I'm a huge believer in Cub scouts as a developmental tool and have no problem if there is a local demand and packs want to set up dens for girls in the community.

I would have a much larger issue if they forced mixed gender dens. That would be a big problem.

 

[jamil]

Boy Scouts will allow girls to join - CNN

So, now will it be the "Scouts of America"?

Gender Neutral "Scouts" of America.

 

[PistolBob]

Girls can join Cub Scouts in January 2018...the chartering organizations will be making the decison to go co-ed or not, allow girls but keep them separate, or just stay boys. The girls in Boy Scouting won't happen until 2019 and at this moment in time the BSA national organization has yet to formulate the new plan that will allow girls the ability to earn all the scouting ranks including the once coveted Eagle.

 

[phylodog]

They should change it to the "WTF-ever Scouts of America"