Boy Scouts of America deal another blow to boyhood

[gregr]

I'm arguing FOR something, namely, that if we all simply agree to mutually respect each other no other belief system would be required.

Anti-gunners want to curtail or completely eliminate our gun ownership rights, not because we are using those rights to harm them, but simply because they believe we shouldn't be allowed to have them.

I will not inflict that distorted reasoning on others.

It is impossible in this limited space to make this point well enough, but...certainly we need more than just mans "reasoning", we need the wisdom and standard of Jesus Christ. Jesus IS the standard, He is what we measure against, He is our Creator, and His wisdom is perfect. In the minds and hearts of men, without His leading, we injure others without even knowing we are, or, we injure others, and don`t care, because the morals and ethics of one, are the morals and ethics of another. Without His Truth to measure our heats, minds, and deeds against, we cannot say whether what we say, do, ot think is good or evil, but when you shine the Light of Gods` Holy Word on it, it is extremely clear where we stand, what our deeds and words amount to. Some on the left claim that we are "hateful" simply because we will not embrace and condone perverse activity, but that`s nonsense and everyone know`s that. Some on the left continue to make the untruthful claim that perverse activities do nothing to harm our culture or society, but that`s just another nonsensical lie. From the soft porn on television, to the sick "humor" on the sitcoms that play in primetime now, to the unrelenting assaults on traditional, wholesome values that many Americans still embrace and lean on, ALL of this undermines our family structure, and it shows itself in the rampant drug use, violence, and hopelessness of our youth. It`s GOT to turn around, and further weakening our families won`t male that any better, but it will make it much worse.

 

[hog slayer]

This change will harm no one and life will go on.

[/QUOTE]

I say it harms my children. You gave room for harm regarding more that simply physically. Now, I say it harms my children. Is it then necessary for me to establish why? Or simply that it harms them? I think this may also be a point you aren't realizing. There WAS a standard. Someone felt left out and discriminated against..."harmed". In altering the standard we "harm" the others. Who is right? If we have accepted emotional harm in your category of no-no things then can the demonstrated acceptance of transgender cause enough emotional harm to my children in their developmental years?

I've stated my thoughts on this as clearly as I'm able to. I've little more to add.

I know you're running out of steam. That's standard fare for humanists. There isn't a lot of substance to back the lifestyle other than it "pleases me/is ok with me/doesn't hurt me" I'd enjoy the continuation of the conversation, however.

If people want to do anything to any other persons, or freely (or even forcibly) "associate" with whomever they choose, it is no concern to me whatsoever. My life will go on no matter what some guy or gal is or does to another man, woman, or child. What you or I think of any such actions on their part is just our opinion and we shouldn't force our opinions of what is right and wrong on others.

I haven't forced my opinions on anyone here. However, terrorist attacks are forcing their opinions on us. What say you? Should we retaliate? How far should we go? Should we go so far as to harm those who haven't actually harmed us yet but intend to? Or are we simply relegated to reaction?

Why is it that I should be concerned with YOUR life? Why should you be concerned about anyone else? Would you defend my daughter from an assault if you were witness? Would you prefer that I defend your daughter, or walk away? And if it wasn't an assault but a peeping Tom? He hasn't physically hurt anyone.

Your opinion may not be backed by history, science, archaeological finds, and numerous other real and tangible realities. That is truly unfortunate. Forcing mine on you is demonstrable all across the globe as the Muslim nation does it's thing. I do not believe that is what I am doing. I am attempting to encourage you and anyone else to truly scrutinize what you believe. Put as much effort into it as you would a home purchase.

You both are right that life WILL go on...until it doesn't. That doesn't add anything. Unless you want to consider what then.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Why is it that I should be concerned with YOUR life? Why should you be concerned about anyone else? Would you defend my daughter from an assault if you were witness? Would you prefer that I defend your daughter, or walk away? And if it wasn't an assault but a peeping Tom? He hasn't physically hurt anyone.

Your opinion may not be backed by history, science, archaeological finds, and numerous other real and tangible realities. That is truly unfortunate. Forcing mine on you is demonstrable all across the globe as the Muslim nation does it's thing. I do not believe that is what I am doing. I am attempting to encourage you and anyone else to truly scrutinize what you believe. Put as much effort into it as you would a home purchase.

You both are right that life WILL go on...until it doesn't. That doesn't add anything. Unless you want to consider what then.

Dude...I was merely demonstrating the logic many folks will use to justify such causes. Of course, they will often couch it in terms of "what two consenting adults wish to do". But this isn't logical. If there's not one, objective standard, there logically cannot be two...or three...or n+1. If there is no objective standard, a standard that not developed by man, then any other is merely the invention of man, his opinion, if you will. If the barometer for acceptable behavior is some subjective measure of harm or its effect on me, then you really have no solid footing to base your standard on what anybody else does to some other person...as long as it doesn't affect me.

 

[singlesix]

It is impossible in this limited space to make this point well enough, but...certainly we need more than just mans "reasoning", we need the wisdom and standard of Jesus Christ. Jesus IS the standard, He is what we measure against, He is our Creator, and His wisdom is perfect. In the minds and hearts of men, without His leading, we injure others without even knowing we are, or, we injure others, and don`t care, because the morals and ethics of one, are the morals and ethics of another. Without His Truth to measure our heats, minds, and deeds against, we cannot say whether what we say, do, ot think is good or evil, but when you shine the Light of Gods` Holy Word on it, it is extremely clear where we stand, what our deeds and words amount to. Some on the left claim that we are "hateful" simply because we will not embrace and condone perverse activity, but that`s nonsense and everyone know`s that. Some on the left continue to make the untruthful claim that perverse activities do nothing to harm our culture or society, but that`s just another nonsensical lie. From the soft porn on television, to the sick "humor" on the sitcoms that play in primetime now, to the unrelenting assaults on traditional, wholesome values that many Americans still embrace and lean on, ALL of this undermines our family structure, and it shows itself in the rampant drug use, violence, and hopelessness of our youth. It`s GOT to turn around, and further weakening our families won`t male that any better, but it will make it much worse.

That's fine for you but what about people that don't believe in Jesus and believe in another? So you want to force your view upon them? Rough est. is there are 4,200 religions in the world, you're saying 4,199 are wrong? If so we aren't that far apart, actually we're one off by 1.

 

[ATM]

That's fine for you but what about people that don't believe in Jesus and believe in another? So you want to force your view upon them? Rough est. is there are 4,200 religions in the world, you're saying 4,199 are wrong? If so we aren't that far apart, actually we're one off by 1.

Your math is wrong.

There is one which is true, and 4,200 which are not (to include yours, which I'm sure you tried to leave out of the count).

Believing or not believing does not change truth.

And, where is this force you speak of?

 

[foszoe]

Clearly.

Also, what's wrong with discrimination? When did that become a bad thing?

The noun is wrong.

It's good as a verb unless done indiscriminately

 

[ATM]

The noun is wrong.

Incorrect.

It's good as a verb unless done indiscriminately

Nice.

 

[phylodog]

That's fine for you but what about people that don't believe in Jesus and believe in another? So you want to force your view upon them? Rough est. is there are 4,200 religions in the world, you're saying 4,199 are wrong? If so we aren't that far apart, actually we're one off by 1.

Most major religions believe in Jesus. Just what he represented is in dispute but he is acknowledged to have existed and considering the differences between the major religions I think it speaks volumes.

 

[PistolBob]

The BSA screwed the pooch on this one. Chief Scout Executive Michal Surbaugh was in Indy today to meet with our local council. They are having a meeting with all the District Executives on Monday to discuss this stupid stupid decision. The BSA made this policy change, without first having leadership training in place, without informing the Councils so they could be prepared for the onslaught of calls from concerned parents, or even discussing this with the Charter Unit Organizations. They blew it. They know they blew it.

In my NSHO they should have just opened Cubs Scouting to all boys and girls. Period. Instead this made this a transgender issue. That was DUMB.

There will be a lot of scouts and adult volunteers leaving the program over this one. We lost a lot when they decided that homosexual leaders were ok...this will be worse. The local council in Indy lost between 16-18 scouting units the last time. Fees are up, membership is down, and this is just another log on the fire that was almost under control.

Nice Job Mr. Surbaugh. Nice job.

 

[phylodog]

The BSA screwed the pooch on this one. Chief Scout Executive Michal Surbaugh was in Indy today to meet with our local council. They are having a meeting with all the District Executives on Monday to discuss this stupid stupid decision. The BSA made this policy change, without first having leadership training in place, without informing the Councils so they could be prepared for the onslaught of calls from concerned parents, or even discussing this with the Charter Unit Organizations. They blew it. They know they blew it.

In my NSHO they should have just opened Cubs Scouting to all boys and girls. Period. Instead this made this a transgender issue. That was DUMB.

There will be a lot of scouts and adult volunteers leaving the program over this one. We lost a lot when they decided that homosexual leaders were ok...this will be worse. The local council in Indy lost between 16-18 scouting units the last time. Fees are up, membership is down, and this is just another log on the fire that was almost under control.

Nice Job Mr. Surbaugh. Nice job.

Color me shocked the liberal ideology didn't improve things.

They may as well change the name to "My prouns are _____ Scouts of America"

 

[gregr]

That's fine for you but what about people that don't believe in Jesus and believe in another? So you want to force your view upon them? Rough est. is there are 4,200 religions in the world, you're saying 4,199 are wrong? If so we aren't that far apart, actually we're one off by 1.

All I can tell you, singlesix is this: I`m not forcing my view on a single person, but I am called, By Jesus, to go out unto the world, and Baptize them in the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Bible tells us there is only One Name under Heaven by which men must be saved, and Jesus Christ said that He is THE way, THE truth, and THE life, and that NO ONE can come to the Father, except by him. If you knew something that would save those you loved, wouldn`t you tell them about it? God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whosoever might believe would not perish, but would have everlasting life. God doesn`t force Himself on the world, He doesn`t force us to kneel before Him, He doesn`t force us to bend to His Will and His Commandments, He allows us to make a choice. His followers cannot force anyone to acknowledge the Lord either, but we are called to speak Truth to the world, because it is the Lords` desire that none should perish, and that all might be saved.

 

[phylodog]

Ooooh, wait, Google is my friend. They should change the name to the Agender, Androgyne, Androgynous, Bigender, Cis, Cisgender, Cis Female, Cis Male, Cis Man, Cis Woman, Cisgender Female, Cisgender Male, Cisgender Man, Cisgender Woman, Female to Male, FTM, Gender Fluid, Gender Nonconforming, Gender Questioning, Gender Variant, Genderqueer, Intersex, Male to Female, MTF, Neither, Neutrois, Non-binary, Other, Pangender, Trans, Trans*, Trans Female, Trans* Female, Trans Male, Trans* Male, Trans Man, Trans* Man, Trans Person, Trans* Person, Trans Woman, Trans* Woman, Transfeminine, Transgender, Transgender Female, Transgender Male, Transgender Man, Transgender, Person, Transgender Woman, Transmasculine, Transsexual, Transsexual Female, Transsexual Male, Transsexual Man, Transsexual Person, Transsexual Woman, Two-Spirit, Scouts of America. You know, to be all inclusive and make sure no one gets their feelings hurt.

 

[ATM]

When you're facing bogus suits and ridiculous court precedents, resisting or pandering to the ever-increasing demands will both be costly choices.

One way or the other, they were going to become the BBQSA.

 

[singlesix]

Most major religions believe in Jesus. Just what he represented is in dispute but he is acknowledged to have existed and considering the differences between the major religions I think it speaks volumes.

I think the fact that even so called Christian can't agree on what bible stats speaks volumes, they can't even agree on which version of the bible is the true version. This started with a transgender kid wanting to join the Scouts, than went into Gays, and the bible so bought in and of course jesus figure, so I asked the question what did jesus say about gays, still haven't gotten an answer, some bible verse from some letter some person wrote about the subject so far.

 

[singlesix]

Your math is wrong.

There is one which is true, and 4,200 which are not (to include yours, which I'm sure you tried to leave out of the count).

Believing or not believing does not change truth.

And, where is this force you speak of?

Dude I quoted so people could see what I was responding too. Belief doesn't change the truth 100% correct. I can choose not to believe in the laws of gravity but if I jump off a bldg I am going to fall. So what? Hey how about an INGO meet and greet, but not to shoot but to discuss. I'm talking about an open and respectful discussion. Oh course we'll eat first (bacon is one truth we all can agree on). I miss the days I spent in my dorm room talking with students for all over the world on all kinds of subjects and issues. I'm serious about the meet and greet.

 

[phylodog]

I think the fact that even so called Christian can't agree on what bible stats speaks volumes, they can't even agree on which version of the bible is the true version. This started with a transgender kid wanting to join the Scouts, than went into Gays, and the bible so bought in and of course jesus figure, so I asked the question what did jesus say about gays, still haven't gotten an answer, some bible verse from some letter some person wrote about the subject so far.

You're going to have discrepancies when text written a few thousand years ago is interpreted by different people at different times.

 

[singlesix]

You're going to have discrepancies when text written a few thousand years ago is interpreted by different people at different times.

Correct and I don't have issue with that, but how can one then stated that this ver is the "Word of God" if it is interpreted by man and there are differences. Heck people claim the KJV is the only true bible but in 1885 some books were removed from the KJV, so before 1885 the "Word of God" wasn't really the correct? Before people freak out .. I respect a person's right to believe what they want. I seek truth by asking questions.

 

[phylodog]

People are going to believe what they have read, have had explained and what makes sense to them. There are always going to be extremists and moderates, I don't pretend to have the answers but I do feel that believing, even if those beliefs differ from others', is better than the alternative.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Correct and I don't have issue with that, but how can one then stated that this ver is the "Word of God" if it is interpreted by man and there are differences. Heck people claim the KJV is the only true bible but in 1885 some books were removed from the KJV, so before 1885 the "Word of God" wasn't really the correct? Before people freak out .. I respect a person's right to believe what they want. I seek truth by asking questions.

Have you looked into Christian apologetics? There're some fascinating youtube videos out there. I've been checking out Frank Turek's work lately. Guys like him specialize in answering questions of skeptics, doubters, atheists, and Christians (that just want to know why things are the way they are).

 

[ATM]

Dude I quoted so people could see what I was responding too.

Sorry, didn't realize it was a private fight.

Belief doesn't change the truth 100% correct. I can choose not to believe in the laws of gravity but if I jump off a bldg I am going to fall. So what? Hey how about an INGO meet and greet, but not to shoot but to discuss. I'm talking about an open and respectful discussion. Oh course we'll eat first (bacon is one truth we all can agree on). I miss the days I spent in my dorm room talking with students for all over the world on all kinds of subjects and issues. I'm serious about the meet and greet.

I prefer arguing in person. If there's time, we could even discuss stuff openly and respectfully.

If you post it they will come (for the bacon at least.)