Breaking: Massive explosion in Beirut, Lebanon

[singlestacksig]

Understandable in that part of the world... but my first thought, and second thought, and current suspicion, after learning that large quantities of AN were seized 7 years ago and housed close to "fireworks" was a bomb making operation.

I'm no chemist, but my limited understanding was that absent extreme heat and containment (as in the ship at Port of Texas City) it would take a "primary explosive" to detonate ANFO so I'm a skeptic that a "firework" could explosively detonate AN without FO in a relatively open warehouse.

Again, pure speculation on my part, but I think it cannot be ruled out that one end of this warehouse was a working bomb making shop with ANFO mixed in close enough proximity to HE primary explosive components that this accident was just waiting to happen. Perhaps a couple "finished products" at the end of the line waiting to be shipped?

It would also explain why 7 years of pleas to sell off the AN were ignored since this was, basically, an endless supply for IED manufacture. And it was "prilled" AN, pelletized for demolition/construction/mining blasting, not fertilizer.

So, to people that have the knowledge, can powder based fireworks detonate unadulterated AN?

Not all fireworks are just BP based, esp in other countries.. some concussion effects are
Potassium perchlorate & metal powder.. and they have quite a shockwave..

 

[johntheplinker]

I will take your word on that. I know very little about high explosives. Basically just what I read. The biggest stuff I played around with in the Army was Bangalore torpedoes and we were relatively far away when those went off.

Unrelated, the people directly responsible for this "accident" are either a fine red mist now or if cartoons are believable, in orbit.

You got ripped off! When I was in we got to play with all kinds of fun stuff, especially over in Germany. Even got to place charges and blow an actual bridge along with more mundane stuff like cratering charges and abatises(abatisi?).

And no doubt quite a few of the folks who survived made themselves scarce.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Not all fireworks are just BP based, esp in other countries.. some concussion effects are
Potassium perchlorate & metal powder.. and they have quite a shockwave..

Right... like a big blasting cap.

Like I said, I'm no expert or even a novice, I just recalled that McVeigh used blasting caps to detonate 350 lbs of Tovex in order to detonate a couple tons of ANMH/ANFO. Basically took a "bomb" to detonate the ANMH bomb.

I guess if the whole warehouse had been engulfed, with an majority of the AN under intense heat, it would seem more plausible to me that fireworks could detonate it... a lot easier to imagine the "perfect storm".

Also quite possible that other materials in the warehouse, either coming or going out of the port, ruptured during the fire and made for a more sensitive mixture.

I guess what really raised my antenna was, if initial news reports are correct, the port and warehouse authorities had issued multiple appeals over the years to allow the AN to be auctioned off and were denied. The cynical appearance is that TPTB wanted to retain it for some reason... forgoing easy money from the auction and incurring storage expenses/space.

 

[Phase2]

Looks like Lebanon is in for further problems. People are really mad about this blast and it appears many are correctly blaming the government.

Lebanon is bracing itself for a return to the massive demonstrations and riots which gripped the streets for much of last year, leading to closures of highways, banks, and public buildings. Like the years-long banking crisis, the government is seen as directly responsible for this week's epic tragedy.

Yes people are angry tonight in #Beirut - what does the government expect?
We basically have been living on a ticking time bomb in this city for the past 6 years with 2,750 tons of ammonium nitrate impounded in Beirut's port since 2014

It doesn't get much more damning than that.

 

[Phase2]

Follow-up on the previous post:

Shots, tear gas and flames as protests against Beirut explosion grow

Lebanese riot police fired tear gas at demonstrators trying to break through a barrier to get to the parliament building in Beirut on Saturday and shots were heard in growing protests over this week’s devastating explosion.
...
About 10,000 people gathered in Martyrs’ Square, some throwing stones. Police fired tear gas when some protesters tried to break through the barrier blocking a street leading to parliament, a Reuters journalist said.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Well, there are competing interests - especially there.

No one wants to get caught sharing it with Hezbollah, but some were probably look for ways to make that happen (at least in small shipments). And others just want to make the money off of it. And with Russians involved, some oligarchs may have wanted a cut, too, but which ones and for how much. I can totally see (most of) it sitting for 6 years.

And, if I'm Mossad, that works just fine. Its not like this was some secret, apparently.

even if it's $1000/ton (which would be high).,we're talking maybe $3M.

that's not a lot of pie to split

 

[Alamo]

even if it's $1000/ton (which would be high).,we're talking maybe $3M.

that's not a lot of pie to split

In a legal market. If you are selling it to terrorist organization like Hezbollah, or you are Hezbollah and you want to move it quietly without the Israelis or anyone else noticing, I suspect the price might be higher.

 

[wagyu52]

Want to steal some explosives? Take half of it and blow the other half up to cover your tracks.

 

[Leadeye]

Yeah, having seen bureaucracies up close and personal, I have no problem believing that line.

Plus, in that part of the world, a couple thousand tons of AN can be... lucrative. Part of the delay may've been arguing about how to split up that particular pie.

Always follow the money

 

[Phase2]

Very good article from Wired analyzing the Beirut blast from a scientific and forensic perspective. It covers the chemistry, physics and some medical perspectives of the blast and does a lot to dispel some of the more crazy speculations.

Two interesting details:

• The primary explosive was the same as the Oklahoma City bombing, but Beirut was about 1000x bigger.
• Ammonium nitrate for fertilizer has additives to makes it harder to explode. This appears to be a form that is intended for blasting (like in mines).

The Tragic Physics of the Deadly Explosion in Beirut

 

[singlestacksig]

even if it's $1000/ton (which would be high).,we're talking maybe $3M.

that's not a lot of pie to split

it is about $170 / ton on Russian market... may have been lower a few years ago...

 

[Alamo]

On TexasCHLforum we have a guy from Beirut who has relatives there. One of his uncles was close and was injured, but happily not killed. Beiruty (his screen name) has been posting videos from there, and a picture of his relative sitting in a wrecked parking garage with big chunks of concrete laying around.
https://www.facebook.com/saidbarakatlb/videos/10158518683686171

https://www.facebook.com/libanesefisherman/posts/3111402408935895
(This is a very clever overlay of before and after satellite photos.)

https://www.newsflare.com/video/371...-moment-of-beirut-explosion-in-4k-slow-motion

 

[Phase2]

On TexasCHLforum we have a guy from Beirut who has relatives there. One of his uncles was close and was injured, but happily not killed. Beiruty (his screen name) has been posting videos from there, and a picture of his relative sitting in a wrecked parking garage with big chunks of concrete laying around.
https://www.facebook.com/saidbarakatlb/videos/10158518683686171

https://www.facebook.com/libanesefisherman/posts/3111402408935895
(This is a very clever overlay of before and after satellite photos.)

https://www.newsflare.com/video/371...-moment-of-beirut-explosion-in-4k-slow-motion

That last video is very impressive, with both sound and high-res. It shows what a fraud that "missile strike" video was with the rumbling and large explosions before the main one.

 

[KokomoDave]

It takes an explosive "train" to detonate certain explosives. I.E. little blasting cap to a bigger boom. That boom goes to an even bigger boom to the MOAB.
In addition, certain ingredients need to be in vapor form to REALLY screw things up. That is how wood mills, paper products factories and even grain storage bins can have a massive Kablooey.

 

[Phase2]

Alamo's 3rd link shows that "train" in process before the major explosion goes off. Also, it looks like the AN in Beirut was a lot easier to set off than the AN that McVeigh was using.

 

[Alamo]

Alamo's 3rd link shows that "train" in process before the major explosion goes off. Also, it looks like the AN in Beirut was a lot easier to set off than the AN that McVeigh was using.

McVeigh used actual fertilizer AN. The stuff in Beirut was “prilled” AN to be used in blasting.

Per Wiki An ANFO explosive is 94% AN and 6% FO, do it doesn't take much fuel to get a bang.

 

[Cameramonkey]

McVeigh used actual fertilizer AN. The stuff in Beirut was “prilled” AN to be used in blasting.

Per Wiki An ANFO explosive is 94% AN and 6% FO, do it doesn't take much fuel to get a bang.

Wow. I expected a LOT more FO to be required.

 

[Alamo]

Wow. I expected a LOT more FO to be required.

I was surprised also. And while Fuel oil number two seems to be the fuel choice, I would guess you could pair it with anything that would burn. Might take more of it.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

I was surprised also. And while Fuel oil number two seems to be the fuel choice, I would guess you could pair it with anything that would burn. Might take more of it.

The fuel thats added can determine the end result and the force of the reaction. #2 oil is used alot because of how inexpensive and stable it is.
Does one want just a chemical reaction or a chemical reaction and fire... Like Ammonium Nitrate and Alum Powder.... just boom and no fire...

 

[NKBJ]

Texas Parks & Wildlife used to make ponds for migratory fowl with fertilizer and either oil, kerosene or something. Nice craters.