Bush cancels trip to Switzerland because of warrant for his arrest

[ThrottleJockey]

Once capture, they can just go home?

PS: many armies are conscript

The water boarding stops when they give up and talk. All they have to do is tell the truth. I think they should quit complaining about it and be happy they get to live/keep their fingernails and other appendages.

 

[indyjoe]

Everything is justified, we are fighting TERRORISM, People!!!

Fighting or supporting terrorism? If their objective is to destory our freedom, then our government is doing the work for them. If nothing else, we'll go bankrupt paying for both sides of this fight.

Purple text = sarcasm.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

The water boarding stops when they give up and talk. All they have to do is tell the truth. I think they should quit complaining about it and be happy they get to live/keep their fingernails and other appendages.

Many of them already talk before water boarding, and many talk during water boarding and continue to be interrogated. Realistically, the cases that have been brought to our attention where water boarding was used, it did not yield more helpful information. If I water board you long enough, you will tell me all kind of lies just to get me to stop.

I guess I would pose this question:

If you are pulled over and suspected of a crime, say possession of an illegal firearm - should you be water boarded for that information?

I mean, if it is a perfectly fine form of "interrogation", we should use it on civil criminal suspects too, correct?

 

[ThrottleJockey]

And this is okay?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2fci9qc37I]YouTube - Real beheading of an american journalist by islamic terrorist[/ame]

 

[ol' trucker]

Obviously Bush didn't torture enough. they are still trying to kill us. maybe they should arrest him for not doing enough.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

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Whew, that was pretty funny.

 

[ol' trucker]

And this is okay?
YouTube - Real beheading of an american journalist by islamic terrorist

The American people have way to short of memory. just like 9/11. a couple of weeks later,they just seem to forget(or not care) don't know which. hopefully it is forget. but they just go about their life. not even thinking about event's like the one above. very unfortunate.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

The American people have way to short of memory. just like 9/11. a couple of weeks later,they just seem to forget(or not care) don't know which. hopefully it is forget. but they just go about their life. not even thinking about event's like the one above. very unfortunate.

I am not so sure that is a fair characterization of the 9/11 attacks. It is kind of like when JFK was assassinated - I bet if you were alive and above the age of 9 when it happened, you will even remember where you were AT when it happened.

 

[rambone]

If we should be permitted to torture for information I think is an opinion in itself, but in my mind water boarding being torture is a fact.

Banning torture is more than an opinion, it is the 8th Amendment.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
​

 

[ol' trucker]

I am not so sure that is a fair characterization of the 9/11 attacks. It is kind of like when JFK was assassinated - I bet if you were alive and above the age of 9 when it happened, you will even remember where you were AT when it happened.

True enough. and I am not going to say that going to Iraq was a good or bad thing. but when He decided to go. he shouldn't have done it half ass(over confident) he should have given no warning. I mean they had reporters on the ground with television cameras,telling us where the first bombs were going to take place. he should have sent full force. and it could have been alot less bloody on our side.and their forces wouldn't have been able to cut and run back to the general poplutation.

 

[Garb]

The SERE portion of water boarding is to give those in special forces a taste of what may happen to them, and the stress of being captured. It is intended to condition those elite forces to be able to escape, and not have a mental breakdown. The difference in my mind between interrogation applications, and the SERE class, is that special forces apply for the programs. They can drop during SERE at any time.

We learned water boarding from the North Vietnamese as a form of torture for interrogation purposes.

We redefined it as "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" to enable us to skirt the definition of torture. It is basically a verbal loophole.

If we should be permitted to torture for information I think is an opinion in itself, but in my mind water boarding being torture is a fact.

I can definitely see where you're coming from, especially with our guys having the option to make it stop. I also have heard of some gruesome stories that make water boarding sound tame. As for making water boarding ok just because they cut off our heads, honestly, let's not lower ourselves to the level of five year olds. "He did that so I'm gonna do this" makes absolutely no sense, especially when it comes to something as important as interrogation.

 

[ol' trucker]

I can definitely see where you're coming from, especially with our guys having the option to make it stop. I also have heard of some gruesome stories that make water boarding sound tame. As for making water boarding ok just because they cut off our heads, honestly, let's not lower ourselves to the level of five year olds. "He did that so I'm gonna do this" makes absolutely no sense, especially when it comes to something as important as interrogation.

Seriously? wow. comparing water boarding to beheading somebody..no comparison. Definately the level of a five year old. really? ok.

 

[Garb]

Seriously? wow. comparing water boarding to beheading somebody..no comparison. Definately the level of a five year old. really? ok.

I did not compare the two at all, I was saying that just because some psychotic terrorists don't obey the law doesn't give us the right not to. Take it how you want, but last time I checked, we were supposed to be the good guys.

 

[ol' trucker]

I did not compare the two at all, I was saying that just because some psychotic terrorists don't obey the law doesn't give us the right not to. Take it how you want, but last time I checked, we were supposed to be the good guys.

I took it the wrong way I guess.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

Hahah. His name is Rambone.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

I only get paid if my threads reach 100 posts or more. Work with me here, Tim.

Seriously though, this was mainstream news today covered by multiple sources; headlining about a warrant for his arrest. The threat of arrest seemed to play a part in the decision-making process for the former president.

Maybe now we should discuss the validity of those charges.

I can't believe I have to explain this but only a governing authority can issue a warrant for an arrest. Whacko protesters cannot issue a warrant for an arrest. There was no threat of arrest. There was only a threat of violence by malcontents and people like you are simply trying to spin it that somehow there's some level of credibility for these whacko protesters to threaten violence on a peaceful assembly.

And NO we are not going to discuss the "validity of charges" put forth by whackjob protesters. There's a reason they're whackjob protesters and not people with an iota of any real authority or credibility. They have as much credibility as the crazy man on the corner yelling at birds for spying on him.

 

[Compatriot G]

Just to comment on an earlier post, waterboarding is not something we learned from the North Vietnamese. The earliest recorded use of waterboarding goes back to the 14th Century. It was used during the Spanish Inquisition. It seems to be a rather old form of interrogation.

 

[rambone]

It's just left wing whackos (like those you see here) who threatened violent protests that prompted President Bush to not have the speech.

Please tell me you aren't really under the impression I am left-wing by any stretch. Whackjob, maybe. But left wing? Bahahaha

I can't believe I have to explain this but only a governing authority can issue a warrant for an arrest. Whacko protesters cannot issue a warrant for an arrest. There was no threat of arrest. There was only a threat of violence by malcontents and people like you are simply trying to spin it that somehow there's some level of credibility for these whacko protesters to threaten violence on a peaceful assembly.

If the arrest threats held no relevance to the royal family then Bush wouldn't have changed his plans. Did you see where it said Israeli politicians have also canceled trips due to avoid arrest warrants? Have you really not seen this story discussed anywhere? The internet is buzzing with it.

Former President Faces Arrest | Veterans Today

George Bush calls off trip to Switzerland after threats of violence and arrest | The Guardian

Bush trip to Switzerland called off amid threats of protests, legal action

Cancellation of Bush Trip to Switzerland Deprives Anti-Torture Activists of a Chance to Arrest Him | CNSnews.com

George Bush issued travel warning by human rights organisations

And NO we are not going to discuss the "validity of charges" put forth by whackjob protesters.

Lets discuss the Geneva Convention. More people have made the claim that Bush broke the law than just some Swiss protesters.

UN Convention Against Torture

Part I
Article 1

For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
This article is without prejudice to any international instrument or national legislation which does or may contain provisions of wider application.

Or how about the 8th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Those whackjobs who wrote it must have been siding with the terrorists!

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

 

[jedi]

I did not compare the two at all, I was saying that just because some psychotic terrorists don't obey the law doesn't give us the right not to. Take it how you want, but last time I checked, we were supposed to be the good guys.

Really? "good" and "bad" all depend on "your point of view". Yes to us (Americans) we are always the good guys but to the rest of the world that is not aways the case. I frankly don't care what the rest of the world thinks. I know we are not always good and that is fine so long as we have what we need.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

Every person I have spoken to that has been water boarded has equated it to torture.

I admit, this is only three people - not exactly a large number, but...

Show me someone who has been water boarded, that does not think it is torture.