Carry in National Parks

[VERT]

As I understand it BO signed into law a credit card bill that included wording regarding firearms in National Parks and Wildlife Areas. These areas will now follow state laws in regards to possession of firearms. If I am not mistaken this takes affect February 22, 2010. So, what else do I need to know? Does this also apply to other properties such as the Corp of Engineers (i.e. our state reservoirs)? I love to fish but have not visited Monroe or Patoka, mainly because of the fact that I can not have my personal firearm while on the water. Good news is that I can now carry in the neighboring wildlife refuge.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Big deal, non issue, couldn't care less what O'dumbo does. I care about as much about carrying a gun while I'm on the water fishing as I do about having a fishing pole in my pocket while I'm rabbit hunting.

 

[cubsfan1984]

It may be a small issue to a lot of people, but here on the shore of Lake Michigan all the creeks and lakefront is considered National Lakeshore. I like the new law.

 

[VERT]

Big deal, non issue, couldn't care less what O'dumbo does. I care about as much about carrying a gun while I'm on the water fishing as I do about having a fishing pole in my pocket while I'm rabbit hunting.

Wow this is probably the last comment I would expect. Especially after reading many of you posts. While I don't agree with everything the current administration is doing, if this is a positive change then great.

It may be a small issue to a lot of people, but here on the shore of Lake Michigan all the creeks and lakefront is considered National Lakeshore. I like the new law.

Thank you, yes this is a big deal for me personally. I can work around not carrying in schools and other areas. IMO firearms are a tool to have in remote or rural areas. I am either by myself or with my 5 year old son. Help is not readily available and retreat is probably not an option. Fact is drug production is a problem in rural areas and trouble could occur.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Wow this is probably the last comment I would expect. Especially after reading many of you posts. While I don't agree with everything the current administration is doing, if this is a positive change then great.

Current administration didn't do it. They just didn't kill it. The last administration, in probably one of the few things they did right, did it in the waning days.

I spend a lot of time in NPs and other similar areas, it's nice for it to be legal now, since I never travel unarmed.

 

[VERT]

Agreed and great point. Should have said at least the current adminstration did not feel like fighting that battle. And kudos to those who passed this initially. The dems wanted credit card reform. I can't say if it is true or not and might just be coincedence, but I have noticed that the credit card companies have been raising rates lately. Probbly trying to get the base interst rate up before the law takes affect. I am very blessed that I do not have to carry a balance on my charge card. They are great tools, but I have been guilty of getting too much on one myself.

 

[finity]

The last administration didn't do this. They did something similar that a court of appeals (I think) killed.

The Bush administration came out with a rule change from the NPS saying it was OK to carry in the parks.

Obama's Interior Sectretary said he would not stop it from taking effect.

I think it was the Brady bunch who tried to kill it (along with the EPA?) by taking the NPS to court & the judge issued an injunction on the new rule.

Before the case went any further the new law was passed by the new Congress & signed by Obama.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Wow this is probably the last comment I would expect. Especially after reading many of you posts. While I don't agree with everything the current administration is doing, if this is a positive change then great.

I just don't need a gun or any other 5 pounds of iron strapped on to me while I'm out fishing in a boat on Monroe. The risk you would need a firearm out there in the current society is so small as to be absurd in my opinion. Way more likely you will fall over board and drown. Now there is a reasonable concern, not pirates, meth heads or gang bangers.

At the same time I don't care in the least if you want to pack one around, over there in your own boat or even in mine. If you are packing iron and go over, I'll toss you something that floats but beyond that and your getting to it, you are on your own. You did something stupid in my opinion, I warned you, you chose to do it any way. I would even risk getting wet.

As for Obama and what the government from local lackeys to Washington thinks they have the right to tell me I can and can't do, they can all go stuff their head up Obama's bunghole for all their opinion is going to affect my behaviour and what I choose to do.

 

[tv1217]

5 pounds? Does JR carry an AR pistol now?

 

[shibumiseeker]

I just don't need a gun or any other 5 pounds of iron strapped on to me while I'm out fishing in a boat on Monroe. The risk you would need a firearm out there in the current society is so small as to be absurd in my opinion. Way more likely you will fall over board and drown. Now there is a reasonable concern, not pirates, meth heads or gang bangers.

I was out canoeing on Monroe with a girlfriend lo these many years ago. Sticking to the idle zone. I always stay near shore because I've had too many idiots buzz me in their power boats. Coming back to the ramp running the gantlet of partiers, some drunk frat boy types started to catcall at my GF. She turns around and flips them off. One of them started to start the boat to come teach us a lesson. Luckily his buddies calmed him down and we went on our way. Had they tried to run us down in their boat they would have had 11 10mm holes in the boat and the pilot before they did.

I'll stick to being armed while I'm on the water, just as I am on land. My gun is in a pack that is attached to the canoe/kayak, so no extra weight on me when I'm in the boat.

 

[littletommy]

I've read the origional post several times now, and I guess I'm reading it right that you cannot carry on Patoka or Monroe??? I have never heard of this before. Is this true?

 

[critter592]

Who said national parks only exist on water?

 

[shibumiseeker]

Who said national parks only exist on water?

No one in this thread.

 

[VERT]

The risk you would need a firearm out there in the current society is so small as to be absurd in my opinion. Way more likely you will fall over board and drown. Now there is a reasonable concern, not pirates, meth heads or gang bangers.

I would say that the chances of needing your firearm on any given day is small, but it does happen. Agreed that drowning is more likely, and that is why I wear a life jacket. I also carry a gun (just not on reservoirs), own a cell phone, buckle my seatbelt, own a fire extinguisher, change the batteries in the smoke detectors, etc.

I've read the origional post several times now, and I guess I'm reading it right that you cannot carry on Patoka or Monroe??? I have never heard of this before. Is this true?

Unfortunately yes it is. Called 3 COs and got three different answers, but ultimately carry is a no go on reserviors or at the falls of the ohio state park. I doubt it would ever be an issue unless the wrong CO caught you.

 

[ddenny5]

I just don't need a gun or any other 5 pounds of iron strapped on to me while I'm out fishing in a boat on Monroe. The risk you would need a firearm out there in the current society is so small as to be absurd in my opinion. Way more likely you will fall over board and drown. Now there is a reasonable concern, not pirates, meth heads or gang bangers.

At the same time I don't care in the least if you want to pack one around, over there in your own boat or even in mine. If you are packing iron and go over, I'll toss you something that floats but beyond that and your getting to it, you are on your own. You did something stupid in my opinion, I warned you, you chose to do it any way. I would even risk getting wet.

As for Obama and what the government from local lackeys to Washington thinks they have the right to tell me I can and can't do, they can all go stuff their head up Obama's bunghole for all their opinion is going to affect my behaviour and what I choose to do.

I think someone got up on the wrong side to the bed.

 

[tv1217]

I think someone got up on the wrong side to the bed.

Yeah, I think he has the right side up against a wall or something.

 

[Bosshoss]

Does anyone have a link that says where you can carry and not carry. I just moved to Patoka and have never heard this before, what about the surrounding land? You can hunt on the surrounding land and I see several people using boats to access remote land, they are carrying guns in the boat. I tried to find rules on the Corp of Engineer site and didn,t see anything listed. What about hiking on surrounding land?
Thanks for any info.

 

[finity]

Does anyone have a link that says where you can carry and not carry. I just moved to Patoka and have never heard this before, what about the surrounding land? You can hunt on the surrounding land and I see several people using boats to access remote land, they are carrying guns in the boat. I tried to find rules on the Corp of Engineer site and didn,t see anything listed. What about hiking on surrounding land?
Thanks for any info.

That's a fairly vague question but I'll try to answer it:

First I assume by "where you can carry" refers only to parks & such.

Here is the link to the rules for ACOE sites. Go to page 9 for rules on firearms:

http://www.lrl.usace.army.mil/opto/article.asp?id=77

Here are the rules for Indiana State Parks (includes restrictions for Falls of the Ohio State Park). Go to Pg 3 for firearm info:

http://www.in.gov/legislative/iac/T03120/A00080.PDF?

Here is the amendment to the CC law that was passed and goes into effect soon:

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress):

if the link doesn't work, here is the text:

SA 1068. Mr. COBURN proposed an amendment to the bill H.R. 627, to amend the Truth in Lending Act to establish fair and transparent practices relating to the extension of credit under an open end consumer credit plan, and for other purposes; as follows:


At the appropriate place in the bill, insert the following:
SEC. __. PROTECTING AMERICANS FROM VIOLENT CRIME.
(a) Congressional Findings.--Congress finds the following:
(1) The Second Amendment to the Constitution provides that ``the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed''.
(2) Section 2.4(a)(1) of title 36, Code of Federal Regulations, provides that ``except as otherwise provided in this section and parts 7 (special regulations) and 13 (Alaska regulations), the following are prohibited: (i) Possessing a weapon, trap or net (ii) Carrying a weapon, trap or net (iii) Using a weapon, trap or net''.
(3) Section 27.42 of title 50, Code of Federal Regulations, provides that, except in special circumstances, citizens of the United States may not ``possess, use, or transport firearms on national wildlife refuges'' of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service.
(4) The regulations described in paragraphs (2) and (3) prevent individuals complying with Federal and State laws from exercising the second amendment rights of the individuals while at units of--
(A) the National Park System; and
(B) the National Wildlife Refuge System.
(5) The existence of different laws relating to the transportation and possession of firearms at different units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System entrapped law-abiding gun owners while at units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System.
(6) Although the Bush administration issued new regulations relating to the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens in units of the National Park System and National Wildlife Refuge System that went into effect on January 9, 2009--
(A) on March 19, 2009, the United States District Court for the District of Columbia granted a preliminary injunction with respect to the implementation and enforcement of the new regulations; and
(B) the new regulations--
(i) are under review by the administration; and
(ii) may be altered.
(7) Congress needs to weigh in on the new regulations to ensure that unelected bureaucrats and judges cannot again override the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens on 83,600,000 acres of National Park System land and 90,790,000 acres of land under the jurisdiction of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service.
(8) The Federal laws should make it clear that the second amendment rights of an individual at a unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System should not be infringed.
(b) Protecting the Right of Individuals To Bear Arms in Units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System.--The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if--
(1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and (2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.

Hope that covers it.

 

[VERT]

Does anyone have a link that says where you can carry and not carry. I just moved to Patoka and have never heard this before, what about the surrounding land? You can hunt on the surrounding land and I see several people using boats to access remote land, they are carrying guns in the boat. I tried to find rules on the Corp of Engineer site and didn,t see anything listed. What about hiking on surrounding land?
Thanks for any info.

The way I understand it, so take it for what it is worth!

Carrying unloaded firearms for the purpose of hunting is OK.
Hiking in state park or national forest is OK.
National Wildlife refuge will soon be OK.
If you are LEO or have written permission of the District Commander.

Corp of Engineers property includes the water itself and land around the water. Their rules do not recognize CCW as a valid reason for having a gun. So, the only concern is the land managed by the COE.

Thanks for the verbage finity. Does not appear that COE properties will be affected by this bill.

 

[Astrocreep]

To be precise, this 'bill' wasn't signed into law by BO.
He signed the "Credit CARD Act of 2009" into law with the Coburn amendment attached.
Credit CARD Act of 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BO and the Dems basically held their noses and approved this bill with the attached firearms amendment.