Carry in the Allen County Library

[Markedup]

Last night the ACPL announced their new gun
policy.A news report on said policy(not THE policy),
is here Not allowed to ban guns, library sets down limits | The Journal Gazette | Fort Wayne, IN

I know that I would show my Indiana LTCHG to LEO,
if requested. But,the same request by library personal could
bring a negative response from me.
Any thoughts?

Thanks

Mark

 

[eldirector]

Effective immediately, patrons may bring a handgun onto library property or into a library, but only if they provide a valid permit. Any person carrying firearms must provide proof of license upon request to library personnel.

From that article:
Not allowed to ban guns, library sets down limits | The Journal Gazette | Fort Wayne, IN

This appears to also be in violation of the new IC. Local governments may not regulate AT ALL. Meaning: NO LAWS, ORDINANCES, or POLICIES. In my humble opinion, this policy would simply open them up to legal issues. They would be best served to simply drop it.

 

[96firephoenix]

I think it is 100% their right to do so. My understanding is that libraries are technically the private property of the library foundation.

Nevertheless, if I am on someone else's property and they ask to see my LTCH as a condition of me being on their property, I would be glad to do so.

From that article:
Not allowed to ban guns, library sets down limits | The Journal Gazette | Fort Wayne, IN

Effective immediately, patrons may bring a handgun onto library property or into a library, but only if they provide a valid permit. Any person carrying firearms must provide proof of license upon request to library personnel.

This appears to also be in violation of the new IC. Local governments may not regulate AT ALL. Meaning: NO LAWS, ORDINANCES, or POLICIES. In my humble opinion, this policy would simply open them up to legal issues. They would be best served to simply drop it.

I disagree. They are enforcing the law on their property by way of policy. Even if I am wrong about it being "private property," I still think that their policy is in accord with the law. IC currently prohibits brandishing a handgun in a threatening manner (so does the policy) and also requires a LTCH in order to carry a handgun off of your own property (as does the policy).

 

[eldirector]

I think it is 100% their right to do so. My understanding is that libraries are technically the private property of the library foundation.

Actually, they are part of the state/county government. Funded by state and local property taxes (primarily). The board is appointed by state and local elected officials. As such, they are "public" property, just like parks. They are absolutely a "political subdivision" as per IC. Give me a while, and I might be able to find the relevant codes.

The only entity that can demand your LTCH is Law enforcement.

The only part of the quoted policy that I don't believe lines up with the new law is the "must provide proof of license". IC does not require that (unless asked by LE), so the library staff can't, either.

 

[Bill B]

A public library, IIRC, is a "political subdivision" for purposes of the I.C., therefore it is not private property.

 

[eldirector]

Alrighty, here we go:

Indiana Code 36-12-1

IC 36-12-1-5
"Public library"
Sec. 5. "Public library" means a municipal corporation that:
(1) provides library services; and
(2) is organized under:
(A) IC 36-12-2;
(B) IC 36-12-4;
(C) IC 36-12-5;
(D) IC 36-12-6; or
(E) IC 36-12-7.

The rest of IC 36-12 deals with how libraries are formed and managed. No question that they are a political subdivision. As such, they can be no more restrictive than IC.

Yes, I suppose there can also be private libraries, and they would not be restricted by this new law. I don't know of very many private libraries, though.

 

[Bill of Rights]

...IC currently prohibits brandishing a handgun in a threatening manner (so does the policy)...

Cite, please?

Also, SEA 292 disallows any regulation of any kind on possession, carry, etc.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[96firephoenix]

IC 35-47-4-3 prohibits pointing a firearm at someone, but there isn't one against "brandishing" specifically. Doing anything (including brandishing a handgun) in a threatening manner can fall under IC 35-45-2-1, which prohibits intimidation.

Thanks for the code, eldirector.

 

[Pocketman]

Surprised no one's asked about carrying at the Helmke Library on the IPFW campus. Just sayin ...

 

[eldirector]

Surprised no one's asked about carrying at the Helmke Library on the IPFW campus. Just sayin ...

Cause no law currently forbids carry there, and the new law will not change that?

I'm looking forward to doing some genealogy research in the Indiana State Library later this summer!

 

[Expat]

Surprised no one's asked about carrying at the Helmke Library on the IPFW campus. Just sayin ...

Now that sounds like the makings of an OC event.

 

[eldirector]

Wait a minute.... I just realized who that was!

Bahahaha....... An OC event would be a hoot, though likely against University policy. I'm sure the OC-ers would be asked to leave pretty quickly.

 

[snowman46919]

Now that sounds like the makings of an OC event.

Maybe the theft problem would go away, but I doubt it since most of the suspects attend school there.

 

[tgallmey]

Now that sounds like the makings of an OC event.

I think we should

 

[superjoe76]

Go inside OCing and ask if they have any books on how to properly use a handgun!!

 

[tgallmey]

Go inside OCing and ask if they have any books on how to properly use a handgun!!

but we all have to appear crosseyed

 

[Sylvain]

Go inside OCing and ask if they have any books on how to properly use a handgun!!

Ask if they have any of those books in braille because you are blind.

 

[ocsdor]

Go in the library with a shotgun instead.

 

[Markedup]

Or Mexican carry a big old revolver
and look for a book on holsters.
But, this isn't where I thought my
thread would go.

Thanks

Mark

The Troll who lives under the
bridge downstream from the
Cherry Hill dam

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Was it simply "against the rules" or was there a penalty associated with carrying in the Allen County Public Libraries? I knew about the Fort Wayne City Parks $2400 fine via ordinance...but not the libraries.