Carry in the Allen County Library

[eldirector]

Was it simply "against the rules" or was there a penalty associated with carrying in the Allen County Public Libraries? I knew about the Fort Wayne City Parks $2400 fine via ordinance...but not the libraries.

Rules. The city (Fort Wayne) and county do/did not have an ordinance regarding libraries. It was on the same list as fireworks, and would get you kicked out for a year.

Just a side note: SB 292 preempts HANDGUN CARRY laws/ordinances/rules/etc... by local governments. They can still make rules on knives, clubs, long guns, etc..... The library, for instance, can still ban your pocket knife.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Rules. The city (Fort Wayne) and county do/did not have an ordinance regarding libraries. It was on the same list as fireworks, and would get you kicked out for a year.

Just a side note: SB 292 preempts HANDGUN CARRY laws/ordinances/rules/etc... by local governments. They can still make rules on knives, clubs, long guns, etc..... The library, for instance, can still ban your pocket knife.

Hehe, the two times I've been in one of the ACPLs (both times for meetings), I carried my XDm, a 3.5" folder, & my multitool. Any time I need a book...I use my computer or phone, rather than wasting gas & borrowing from the waste of money (library).

 

[BE Mike]

This is a related story. Luckily Steve Day will be retiring in October, but they'll probably appoint some other pin head to the position.New chapter in concealed carry laws brings criticism - FOX41.com Louisville News Kentucky Indiana News Weather Sports

 

[Bill of Rights]

Curiosity:

While the law is about to forbid the libraries saying "no guns" or even saying "no openly-carried guns", since they're worried about a child seeing it or being scared of it , I find myself wondering... If a library had a sign at the front requesting that any carried guns be concealed, how many of you would comply, since there is no force of any kind to the request? Further, suppose they had a sign requesting that guns not be carried in at all?

Speaking for myself, if I OCd, I would certainly consider concealing in response to a request, though I would also consider having a conversation with the library board/management, to the effect that this is an excellent opportunity to address those fears with education: A visible pistol probably means that the person carrying it is doing so lawfully, and those people who carry lawfully are much more likely to do most other things lawfully as well. I'd discuss with them replacing that sign with one reading, "You have nothing to fear from lawfully carried guns or the people who are carrying them."

As for a sign requesting no carry at all, I think I would respectfully decline and no one would know it but me (until I got on INGO to let people know of the sign I saw, that is.)

I can understand fear of the unknown, and to those who do not know guns, they know only what the movies and the "news" tell them, thus, there is much they think they have reason to fear. Knowledge, however, is power, and when you master a fear, it no longer controls you. This is a good thing all around, IMHO.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[eldirector]

As of tomorrow, I intend to ignore illegal "requests" - libraries included. If they expect me to follow the law, then I expect the same from them. I suspect it will take quite some time for them to remove all of their signage and edit/repost their policies. If I see anything, I will assume they are "working on it".

Now, if a private entity posted a sign reading similar to: "We absolutely believe you have the right to carry. We ask that you carry discretely for the comfort of other patrons.", then I would very likely conceal. I may even thank the owner for his tactful approach.

Remember, if you are "adversely affected" by a local rule/policy/ordinance, you can file suit. I would consider attempts to modify my otherwise legal behavior and property possession to be "adverse".

 

[Roadie]

This is a related story. Luckily Steve Day will be retiring in October, but they'll probably appoint some other pin head to the position.New chapter in concealed carry laws brings criticism - FOX41.com Louisville News Kentucky Indiana News Weather Sports

"The thing you have to remember is if we open it to libraries, where do we stop? Do we have a lot of gun shootings in libraries now?"

Day responds, "Common sense needs to rule."

uhm...

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Curiosity:

While the law is about to forbid the libraries saying "no guns" or even saying "no openly-carried guns", since they're worried about a child seeing it or being scared of it , I find myself wondering... If a library had a sign at the front requesting that any carried guns be concealed, how many of you would comply, since there is no force of any kind to the request? Further, suppose they had a sign requesting that guns not be carried in at all?

In the 9 years I've been paying Allen County property taxes, I've crossed the threshold of the downtown library four times (twice entering & twice exiting). I've not used any of the other libraries in the county. The first time I was there it was to attend an Allen County Libertarian Party meeting. The second time was my cousin's graduation from her halfway house.

I would gladly comply with a request to conceal or disarm as soon as they comply with my request to stop wasting my tax dollars on gigantic, shiny, new buildings which became obsolete at least a decade ago when everyone got the internet. If they want to serve those who don't have internet access...they can build a load of internet kiosks across the county with their $17,000,000/yr budget. This would better serve those who are both without internet access & without transportation. A central library of printed pages in the digital age is asinine.

 

[Bill of Rights]

My point in asking is that if it phrased as a request "for the comfort of our other patrons", you're not bound by it, they're asking. in that same private business described above, failure to comply could lead to them asking you to leave. It just seems to me that a polite request is not out of line unless it's accompanied by a 'tude. YMMV.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[eldirector]

Under the new law, can a local government entity make such a request? It certainly can't be a policy to make the request. It would have to be an employee acting on their own, outside of their authority.

Not the best correlation, but it is also illegal to have a rule/policy forbidding entry to patrons based on religion. Could a library ask (unofficially - just a sign) a Jewish man to cover or remove his kippah?

 

[Paco Bedejo]

My point in asking is that if it phrased as a request "for the comfort of our other patrons", you're not bound by it, they're asking. in that same private business described above, failure to comply could lead to them asking you to leave. It just seems to me that a polite request is not out of line unless it's accompanied by a 'tude. YMMV.

Blessings,
Bill

I will & do comply with the requests of polite, private entities, especially for-profits. I will not comply with the requests of an obsolete shrine to excessive taxation.

That said, I'm not a regular patron. If I want to look at piles of printed paper...I'll do a Google Images search. If I want/need a book, I'll either 'acquire it online' or buy it on Kindle/Nook/Google Books, then read it on my computer/netbook/phone.

 

[rugertoter]

I knew this was going to get messy.

 

[Hammerhead]

"Libraries will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no libraries." - unknown

As far as a request to conceal? No, I wouldn't comply.

 

[JettaKnight]

I've carried many of times to the library, didn't know it was illegal. And amazingly each time I did no one got shot!

But seriously, my problem is with the newspaper articles and hoopla considering the change. Why can't they handle this without engaging in public rhetoric? Many other locations around town are changing and they have enough common sense to stay quiet about it.

I'm considering OC'ing (out of the norm for me) and stating, "I'm only making a scene because you made a scene."

 

[Paco Bedejo]

"Libraries will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no libraries." - unknown

Here's your modern card catalog: http://www.google.com/

That one doesn't cost the residents of a single county $17,000,000/yr...it actually pays for itself.

 

[csnoski]

Paco,Paco..

As a regular library customer, I find your general opinions on libraries frightening. I am obviously computer literate but books are the original I-whatevers. Anytime I am in a waiting room, stuck in traffic or simply enjoying a pleasant sunny day with my cubbies on the radio, a book is my constant companion. You wanna talk about wasted property taxes? Why do I subsidize parents of school age children in getting their kids to and from school? When I was a kid I either walked, or if the weather was too nasty, got to school a half hour too early when dad dropped me off on his way to work.

Everyone who pays taxes can find some area of govt spending to complain about. Digital isn't the end all, be all. Besides, this thread is about library carry policy, not the value of public libraries. Yes, I am off topic too, but your posts woke up my keyboard.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Paco,Paco..

As a regular library [STRIKE]customer[/STRIKE] patron, I find your general opinions on libraries frightening.

FTFY. If you were a customer, this thread wouldn't exist.

I am obviously computer literate

Please don't take this as an insult, but anyone who still double-spaces between sentences doesn't strike me as being fully computer-literate, as double-spacing was only ever proper on typewriters due to the inherent monospaced font. I haven't actually seen someone do that for 5+ years now. Just struck me as funny.

but books are the original I-whatevers. Anytime I am in a waiting room, stuck in traffic or simply enjoying a pleasant sunny day with my cubbies on the radio, a book is my constant companion.

I have 13 text-only books & 16 audio books in my pocket right now. Interestingly enough, the same device allows me to plan my driving routes, get directions, avoid traffic congestion, keep tabs on the weather forecast, & listen to FM radio signals.

You wanna talk about wasted property taxes? Why do I subsidize parents of school age children in getting their kids to and from school? When I was a kid I either walked, or if the weather was too nasty, got to school a half hour too early when dad dropped me off on his way to work.

My public school was 7.8 miles from my house. Map But, you won't hear any argument from me...see below.

Everyone who pays taxes can find some area of govt spending to complain about.

Welfare programs like public schools, libraries, transportation, etc. are great places to begin.

Digital isn't the end all, be all.

Yeah, it sorta is. You & I aren't exactly having this conversation via postal correspondence now, are we?...

 

[SirRealism]

Please don't take this as an insult, but anyone who still double-spaces between sentences doesn't strike me as being fully computer-literate, as double-spacing was only ever proper on typewriters due to the inherent monospaced font. I haven't actually seen someone do that for 5+ years now. Just struck me as funny.

Whatever. I know many computer-literate folks, including myself, who still double-space.

 

[Markedup]

Paco,Paco..



Besides, this thread is about library carry policy, not the value of public libraries. Yes, I am off topic too, but your posts woke up my keyboard.

Thanks for that,Sir.
I value my ACPL card,one of which I've carried for more
than fifty years,very highly.My LTCH, not so much. Free
people of the USA should not need a license.You could
look it up.

Thanks

Mark

OP

 

[Paco Bedejo]

I value my ACPL card, one of which I've carried for more than fifty years,very highly.

This is how I view public library cards:

 

[snowman46919]

I will keep this short and sweet. In case of an event where there is an invasion, a take over, or just a military/government coupe your digital end all be all will be the first thing to go. Look at all the uprisings recently in the middle east the first thing to go is communication, other things that they may cut would be water and power. So even if you have a digital copy on your computer or phone you may have very limited use of it.