Church Hosted Preschool... OK to carry to service?

[minuteman32]

I wonder if the church were to have a blanket policy, in writing, that anyone who has a license to carry (for a pistol), or is an otherwise law abiding citizen (for long guns, knives, etc.), were officially given permission to carry on the property, or were considered armed volunteer security, would be acceptable.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Well then, they're all committing a felony just by stepping foot (Or even leaving a firearm in their car) anywhere on our church's property.

This is incorrect. The same rules apply to schools that apply to places of employment. If the gun is in your car (or the cigarettes are being smoked in your car), it is on your property. Remember, in your car = your property, not in your car = not on your property (unless you are on your property).

 

[GIJEW]

Does the definition of 'school' include one that is not accredited--ie sunday school?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

This is incorrect. The same rules apply to schools that apply to places of employment. If the gun is in your car (or the cigarettes are being smoked in your car), it is on your property. Remember, in your car = your property, not in your car = not on your property (unless you are on your property).

That is incorrect, the same rules do not apply. Mainly because having guns on school property is against the law per Indiana code (with some exceptions) and having one at work is not (again with some exceptions) there is a case that has been posted on this site several times about a guy who was charged and convicted of having a gun on school property that was in his car. IIRC basically he dropped his kid off at school and then went inside for something, the gun was seen in his vehicle and the police were called. Since he was not in his vehicle he wasn't operating it so he didn't fall under the exception listed. Or the recent case where a high school student was arrested for having an unloaded shotgun in his car, he had went hunting over the weekend and forgot to take it out. I haven't heard anything new about that one so I don't know if the charges are still pending/dropped/he was convicted or what.

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.
IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

There are more cases on record in federal court that classify the inside of a persons car as that persons property and not the property the car is sitting on than we could list in a lifetime. Any lawyer worth his weight in manure would beat those charges. What I'm more concerned about is how a prior felon can be busted growing weed in his house and have a shotgun on the premises, yet not be charged for the shotgun while a law biding citizen can just have a shotgun in his car and be charged. It wasn't that long ago in Monroe county, I carried my shotgun and shells to school on the bus and kept it in my locker so that I could go hunting at a friends house after school. The bus driver knew, the teachers knew, the principal knew.....I wasn't even a well behaved student. Yet there was no problem with it.

 

[minuteman32]

There are more cases on record in federal court that classify the inside of a persons car as that persons property and not the property the car is sitting on than we could list in a lifetime. Any lawyer worth his weight in manure would beat those charges. What I'm more concerned about is how a prior felon can be busted growing weed in his house and have a shotgun on the premises, yet not be charged for the shotgun while a law biding citizen can just have a shotgun in his car and be charged. It wasn't that long ago in Monroe county, I carried my shotgun and shells to school on the bus and kept it in my locker so that I could go hunting at a friends house after school. The bus driver knew, the teachers knew, the principal knew.....I wasn't even a well behaved student. Yet there was no problem with it.

Do we have a volunteer for the test case?

Seriously though, I agree. I used to carry guns in my car @ school in the 80's. My principal knew & was okay w/ it (& I was in trouble a LOT for other things!!). Now, if I wasn't an LEO, I wouldn't be able to go to the church I grew up in w/ a gun in my car, since the school is in the same building!!!

Also, I posted this here before, but I had a heated conversation w/ the Hamilton Co. Persecutors' investigator a couple of years ago. My current church bought a smaller church a mile down the road from our main church, separated by a couple of housing complexes. A small Christian school lost their facility about the same time & we said they could use our other building M-F for classes. I was told that location was a "school" 24/7/365, even though the school only met there M-F during the day, and our church used the building for other things @ other times (including my wedding!). I was also told that, since we had Sunday School @ the main campus, I couldn't have a gun w/in 1000' of there. Since I knew he was wrong about that, his credibility went down the drain @ that point. I carried every time I was there, still do. Mainly b/c I carry everywhere, but also because our pastor had asked me to to 'protect the flock'.

 

[Bruenor]

There are more cases on record in federal court that classify the inside of a persons car as that persons property and not the property the car is sitting on than we could list in a lifetime. Any lawyer worth his weight in manure would beat those charges. What I'm more concerned about is how a prior felon can be busted growing weed in his house and have a shotgun on the premises, yet not be charged for the shotgun while a law biding citizen can just have a shotgun in his car and be charged. It wasn't that long ago in Monroe county, I carried my shotgun and shells to school on the bus and kept it in my locker so that I could go hunting at a friends house after school. The bus driver knew, the teachers knew, the principal knew.....I wasn't even a well behaved student. Yet there was no problem with it.

Today, in almost any school, you would be arrested and expelled for that. Sorry, but this is very bad advice. If you have a gun in your car, you can physically be on school property as long as you are inside and operating the vehicle. When you are no longer operating the vehicle, you have just committed a felony. Your comment about "any lawyer worth his weight" is an opinion, and will probably have you end up serving a jail sentence.

 

[MontereyC6]

Today, in almost any school, you would be arrested and expelled for that. Sorry, but this is very bad advice. If you have a gun in your car, you can physically be on school property as long as you are inside and operating the vehicle. When you are no longer operating the vehicle, you have just committed a felony. Your comment about "any lawyer worth his weight" is an opinion, and will probably have you end up serving a jail sentence.

What he also was stating federal cases. What is of concern here is state law, which in 2 entirely different things.

 

[dburkhead]

This is incorrect. The same rules apply to schools that apply to places of employment. If the gun is in your car (or the cigarettes are being smoked in your car), it is on your property. Remember, in your car = your property, not in your car = not on your property (unless you are on your property).

That is not true and people have been convicted to prove it.

 

[dburkhead]

Originally Posted by ThrottleJockey
There are more cases on record in federal court that classify the inside of a persons car as that persons property and not the property the car is sitting on than we could list in a lifetime. Any lawyer worth his weight in manure would beat those charges. What I'm more concerned about is how a prior felon can be busted growing weed in his house and have a shotgun on the premises, yet not be charged for the shotgun while a law biding citizen can just have a shotgun in his car and be charged. It wasn't that long ago in Monroe county, I carried my shotgun and shells to school on the bus and kept it in my locker so that I could go hunting at a friends house after school. The bus driver knew, the teachers knew, the principal knew.....I wasn't even a well behaved student. Yet there was no problem with it.

Do we have a volunteer for the test case?

Test case has already happened. Gun owner lost. Felony conviction, 1 ea. Say bye bye to being able to own guns.

Case is covered in Ciyou's "Indiana Handgun Law."