City plans to bill pastor for security around planned Quran burning

[Eddie]

I believe some states do enact legislation enabling them to bill people for rescue services. Those involve people who do things like go caving or mountain climbing in places or at times that they aren't supposed to and end up needing rescue.

Locally we had a condemned building. The owner was ordered to make it safe and refused to do so. The building collapsed out onto a public roadway and the county had to remove the debris to clear the road. The owner was billed and later sued for the cost of cleanup.

I think that the above examples however are different from the excercise of free speech. Billing for planned security for an event that did not occur is also different than billing for something that actually happened. I don't think as a free society that we should ever place a cost on the exercise of free speech.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

This is rediculous. We all pay our taxes to fund things like this. They should either charge a per use fee, OR charge us taxes. I don't want to leave it up to a politician or government entity to decide what is above and beyond the normal duties of the police or fire department.

That should go for all activities...Black Expo, Indy 1500 (which I think it does), Colts games, Mini Marathon, etc...

In other words, if I am using it, I will pay for it, but if I'm not using it, I don't want to pay for it.

I suggest a close look at your tax bill breakout will tell you how much of your county tax goes to public safety. I think you will find that your taxes go primarily to pay for your schools and library; in my township, with a 150+ paid professional staff and five firestations, less than 15% of our taxes paid goes to the department. One thing many people don't understand is that when there is any kind of tax dispute which holds up property tax disbursements to the local jurisdiction, they don't get the money they've budgeted - but they are still expected to go on providing services. My local township fire department didn't get their state funding on time for three years running and they had something like a $7M annual budget. The 40% of ambulance bills that they were able to collect on were the only cash they had coming in for about eight months two years ago.

I recall talking to the fire chief of another township some years ago. His township was growing rapidly and they needed more equipment, stations, and personnel to be able to provide the standard of response the township wanted, but the township board was initially unwilling to raise the tax rate to be able to afford the changes. He was eventually able to talk them into the tax increase, but he really had to provide a lot of data to convince them (as was proper).

About three years ago, we happened to meet the Chief of the Dyer Volunteer Fire Department. Like many departments in Lake County, it is a volunteer department and has difficulty making ends meet. Although they have a fairly large city to cover, most of it is "old established", and, of the new development, not enough is business-related (which generates more tax money). They have been able to generate some grants to get equipment and they hold several annual fund-raisers to get funds, but the last I heard, the Fire Chief stopped being paid even a nominal salary and the departmental Office Assistant (who does all the billing, paperwork, grant research, etc.) was only being paid for 20 hrs a week.

People get the services they are willing to pay for; it's just that sometimes they don't know what they're paying for.

 

[BigMatt]

I'm not talking about how much I pay or how efficiently it is disbursed. I am saying that I want to be held accountable for the services that I incur if everyone else is. If my taxes are expected to pay for these services, I want everyone's taxes to pay these charges too.

If I am going to be charged for them, I want everyone to be charged.

I just don't think this happens. I think they pick and choose who they charge for these things. Just like they pick and choose who pays taxes.

 

[spearheadersarge]

Not to beat on the volunteer fire dept folks, if a town needed a fire dept, they would fund it. Vol fire depts are the municipalitie's way of not funding a real fire dept. Vol guys get training and eq from fund raising activites. They are for themost part hard working and community assets. I don't think charging for their services is right though. They are volunteers. If the residents want fire dept services they will clamour for them. I got home owners insurance for a fire. I pay for that. I take responsabilty for my property and assume that if my home were on fire and burned down, the only response the volunteer fire dept would havee would to make sure that it didn't spread and that no one was injured. I do not expect them to save my home as a fully funded on call fire dept could or would. I would also not expect to pay additional fees for the services of them or the police for responding to the scene. I already pay taxes for that and for them to sit at the fire house and wash their personal vehicles, four wheelers, boats, etc. cause the town says they can as a perk. I just had to get that out as it gets under my skin when they do that and the mud and crap washes in my yard! just my view!

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Not to beat on the volunteer fire dept folks, if a town needed a fire dept, they would fund it. Vol fire depts are the municipalitie's way of not funding a real fire dept. Vol guys get training and eq from fund raising activites. They are for themost part hard working and community assets. I don't think charging for their services is right though. They are volunteers. If the residents want fire dept services they will clamour for them. I got home owners insurance for a fire. I pay for that. I take responsabilty for my property and assume that if my home were on fire and burned down, the only response the volunteer fire dept would havee would to make sure that it didn't spread and that no one was injured. I do not expect them to save my home as a fully funded on call fire dept could or would. I would also not expect to pay additional fees for the services of them or the police for responding to the scene. I already pay taxes for that and for them to sit at the fire house and wash their personal vehicles, four wheelers, boats, etc. cause the town says they can as a perk. I just had to get that out as it gets under my skin when they do that and the mud and crap washes in my yard! just my view!

The rest of your [rant] aside, if your municipality isn't large enough to fund a full-time fire department (as many rural areas are not), volunteers are what you've got for firefighting, ems, and rescue. If you don't have a capable VFD in your jurisdiction, usually VFDs from other jurisdictions end up responding to your emergency. Not only does that increase the response time (which is already degraded due to the differences in available manpower between full-time and volunteer departments), now you're increasing expenses for departments who don't get any of your taxes.

Modern firefighting anymore isn't for the brave soul who grabs a hose or an axe and charges into the burning building to save the kiddies. A firefighter has to be well trained prior to certification and has to continue education and training throughout their tenure. When you add in the effects of hazardous materials, the science and techniques of various types of rescues, and the complexities of emergency medical response, the cost to train and equip (to OSHA standards) even a VFD generally exceeds their annual tax revenue.

Although I'm not as familiar with the nuts-and-bolts of small-town law enforcement agencies, they have similar issues with manning vs. usage, continuing education (required to maintain certification), and wear-and-tear on equipment. As personnel costs increase, agencies have to find other ways to generate revenue to keep up.

The point of all this is: you - as a community - need to decide what you're willing to pay to have these services. If you don't want to pay for them, or you don't care if they aren't "up to standard", well, that's kind of like buying a hi-point 9mm carbine because you don't want to pay for an AR, isn't it?