CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[lovemachine]

I know all about Saint Paul. I chose him as my Patron Saint when I went thru Confirmation last year.

The Apostle Paul was known as Saul before his conversion. He worked for the Pharisees and was essentially a thug for the Jewish elite. He literally went house to house hunting Christians so they could be put to death. He was feared by Christians and was one of the most prolific persecutors of the church. (See Acts 8)

And then the resurrected Christ appeared to him and he became one of the greatest champions for Jesus. A murderer, he wrote most of the books of the New Testament.

So, yes, ANYONE can be saved through faith. But if they have no remorse, they deny their sins, they have no faith.



The blood of Christ makes believers presentable. Nothing else can substitute. If you find yourself on fire, its too late.

"And by that will, we have been made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Christ once and for all." Hebrews 10:10



For unbelievers.

 

[rambone]

But I thought He was willing that none should perish.

Lets read it together.

"The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." 2 Peter 3:9

The Lord has offered us a promise (salvation), but it is not unconditional. If we repent and show genuine faith that Christ resurrected from the grave, we will be saved. God wants us all to meet that condition, as he wants us all to love Him. If we fail the one simple condition, he has another guarantee for us: eternal Hell. He will surely keep his promise.

 

[mbills2223]

Lets read it together.

"The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." 2 Peter 3:9

The Lord has offered us a promise (salvation), but it is not unconditional. If we repent and show genuine faith that Christ resurrected from the grave, we will be saved. God wants us all to meet that condition, as he wants us all to love Him. If we fail the one simple condition, he has another guarantee for us: eternal Hell. He will surely keep his promise.

But previously you suggested that Protestants believe it is by faith alone

 

[rambone]

I know all about Saint Paul. I chose him as my Patron Saint when I went thru Confirmation last year.

That is certainly an excellent choice. The bible shows us over and over that even the most despicable actions can be forgiven. The flaws of the bible's heroes are on display for all to see. Jacob was a scoundrel and stole his brother's birthright, then later became the patriarch of the 12 tribes of Israel. King David had a ridiculous amount of blood on his hands; had his best friend sent on a suicide mission and stole his wife. Peter denied Christ in his hour of need, then became the leader of the infant church. Consistently we see that there is forgiveness aplenty for those humble enough to seek it.

 

[rambone]

But previously you suggested that Protestants believe it is by faith alone

That is correct, straight out of the bible. But there is no such thing as a "faithful" person who does not repent of his sins. With faith comes repentance.

The Christian purity test is found in 1 John.

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and Just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:8-10

 

[D-Ric902]

Out

 

[RockofStrength]

That is correct, straight out of the bible. But there is no such thing as a "faithful" person who does not repent of his sins. With faith comes repentance.

The Christian purity test is found in 1 John.

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and Just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:8-10

Indeed! Saving faith necessarily results in a transformation from death into life, which results in a tenderness of heart towards one's sin and a recognition of how offensive those sins are to God. Paul elaborates on this in Ephesians 4:17-24:

"So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; and they, having become callous,have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth."


A Christian can sin, as Rambone highlighted in 1 John, but sin no longer claims his life as it did formerly. He repents, he turns, he desires to overcome the temptations that beset him and to instead seek for a greater knowledge of and relationship with Christ.

 

[findingZzero]

We gave you one god and you couldn't resist breaking him into three. Then the god impregnates a human. Soooo pagan.....Am I banned?

 

[rambone]

So are you saying a person that likes to rape 5 year old boys but believes in GOD will go to heaven?

I have to say something else about this statement.

Salvation never comes from believing that God exists. Nobody goes to heaven by concluding that the world was created by a Creator or a Great Architect of the Universe. It is fun to win the Intelligent Design argument, but that does not get you saved. You can even believe that Jesus was a real historical person who got crucified by the Romans, and that is still not enough.

"You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe -- and shudder!" James 2:19

See, demons know that God exists. Satan knows that God exists. And, so? That's not what it takes.

What does it take?

"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9

 

[RockofStrength]

We gave you one god and you couldn't resist braking him into three. Then the god impregnates a human. Soooo pagan.....Am I banned?

Presuming that you refer to the Old Covenant and Judaism, God is indeed One. The New and Old Testament do not at all change the nature of the eternal God. Christ made it extremely clear that He and the Father were One, and that They always had been. That Christ would be born of God by means of a virgin is not some new chicanery, but Old Testament prophecy clearly fulfilled.

In relation to the Oneness of God and Christ:

Genesis 1:26-27
"Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

Isaiah 9:6-7,
"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this."

John 8:57-58, "So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple."

John 17:11, "I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are."

And on and on and on. Nothing in Christianity is in any way in contradiction with the revealed Law and the Prophets granted to the Jews, nor is it related to pagan practice or teaching.

 

[mrjarrell]

I'll just leave this here. Be warned there's some adult language in it.

[video=youtube_share;8RV46fsmx6E]http://youtu.be/8RV46fsmx6E[/video]

 

[mrjarrell]

[video=youtube_share;ISWUTPVqIDU]http://youtu.be/ISWUTPVqIDU[/video]

 

[PistolBob]

Let's not forget the Catholics added several books during the counter-reformation. Therefore, when you say "it's in the Bible", we can say, "No it's not."

Which books?

You do understand the original Christian/Catholic Bible predates the KJV by centuries. Right?

 

[mrjarrell]

They're out of sequence. This is part 2.
[video=youtube_share;oTeopOdov-U]http://youtu.be/oTeopOdov-U?list=PLA7BFCE176040CCDE[/video]

 

[PistolBob]

So then why does Hell exist?

So congress has somewhere to go when they die.

 

[beehunter]

I have to say something else about this statement.

Salvation never comes from believing that God exists. Nobody goes to heaven by concluding that the world was created by a Creator or a Great Architect of the Universe. It is fun to win the Intelligent Design argument, but that does not get you saved. You can even believe that Jesus was a real historical person who got crucified by the Romans, and that is still not enough.

"You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe -- and shudder!" James 2:19

See, demons know that God exists. Satan knows that God exists. And, so? That's not what it takes.

What does it take?

"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9

You are 100% correct rambone.

 

[mbills2223]

So congress has somewhere to go when they die.

I'm giving you a slow clap for that.

 

[findingZzero]

Presuming that you refer to the Old Covenant and Judaism, God is indeed One. The New and Old Testament do not at all change the nature of the eternal God. Christ made it extremely clear that He and the Father were One, and that They always had been. That Christ would be born of God by means of a virgin is not some new chicanery, but Old Testament prophecy clearly fulfilled.

In relation to the Oneness of God and Christ:

Genesis 1:26-27
"Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

Isaiah 9:6-7,
"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this."

John 8:57-58, "So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple."

John 17:11, "I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are."

And on and on and on. Nothing in Christianity is in any way in contradiction with the revealed Law and the Prophets granted to the Jews, nor is it related to pagan practice or teaching.

Thanks for compiling the references, and your civil tone.

 

[ViperJock]

Only the whole "one" thing is not that simple. Many believe that Christ is referring to knowing Abraham because his soul was present before he was born into mortal flesh. He often refers to his Father (God) as a completely separate person. Take for example the quote from John 17 which you brought up.

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.


14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.


15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.


16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.


17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.


18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.


19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.


20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;


21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.


22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

What Christ means is that they are one in purpose and in heart. Not literally one physical manifestation. Why would he tell the disciples to be one as He is one with the father if he didn't mean it that way? It would be absurd to think he meant for them to literally become one being.

And thus defining why there are umpteen sects of Chritianity.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

John 10:30 "I and my Father are one"

John 10:38 "But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him."

The Jews that were around Him were going to stone Him because they understood that He was saying He IS God.