Clays for 9mm?

[ilcaveman]

I have loaded about 20,000 9mm rounds with clays in my Dillon with no problems . I load lead bullets for plinking. I would use something else for plated or jacketed rounds.

 

[cobber]

Clays with jacketed hollow points?

Rather than start a new thread, any reloading data sources for 9mm 124 gr. Hornday XTP with Hodgdon Clays (not Universal)? The published company data is for lead bullets and lower velocities, so I'm *assuming* that a load for a jacketed bullet will be somewhat higher.

I have seen posts in other forums giving loads over 4.0 gr, but with Clays that sounds a bit dicey.

 

[trophyhunter]

Rather than start a new thread, any reloading data sources for 9mm 124 gr. Hornday XTP with Hodgdon Clays (not Universal)? The published company data is for lead bullets and lower velocities, so I'm *assuming* that a load for a jacketed bullet will be somewhat higher.

I have seen posts in other forums giving loads over 4.0 gr, but with Clays that sounds a bit dicey.

Yea, 4 grains could get dicey with a bullet setback I'd load no longer than 1.125 to use less powder to make the pressure ceiling here's Quickload numbers on that round for you.

Cartridge          : 9 mm Luger (SAAMI)Bullet             : .355, 124, Hornady HP/XTP 35571
Useable Case Capaci: 8.169 grain H2O = 0.530 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.125 inch = 28.58 mm
Barrel Length      : 4.0 inch = 101.6 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon Clays


Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !


Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms


-20.0   71     2.56    860     204   23327   2274    100.0    0.538
-18.0   73     2.62    873     210   24350   2323    100.0    0.527
-16.0   75     2.69    885     216   25395   2373    100.0    0.518
-14.0   76     2.75    898     222   26462   2422    100.0    0.508
-12.0   78     2.82    910     228   27552   2471    100.0    0.499
-10.0   80     2.88    922     234   28665   2521    100.0    0.490
-08.0   82     2.94    934     240   29800   2569    100.0    0.482  ! Near Maximum !
-06.0   84     3.01    946     246   30959   2618    100.0    0.474  ! Near Maximum !
-04.0   85     3.07    957     252   32141   2667    100.0    0.466  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   87     3.14    969     258   33347   2716    100.0    0.459  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   89     3.20    980     265   34576   2764    100.0    0.452  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0   91     3.26    992     271   35829   2812    100.0    0.445  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0   92     3.33   1003     277   37107   2860    100.0    0.438  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0   94     3.39   1014     283   38410   2908    100.0    0.432  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0   96     3.46   1025     289   39737   2956    100.0    0.425  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0   98     3.52   1036     296   41090   3004    100.0    0.419  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

[VERT]

Tagged. I have 7 pounds of Clays in an open jug that I would love to use up. Even at max published loads I can not seem to make power factor. Only load I have found so far that will work for me is 3.9-4.0 under a 230 grain LRN in 45 acp. I have been tempted to try some Clays in 9mm but the narrow window for charge weight makes me nervous. The powder does not meter as consistently as others in my Dillon and it seems that max charges are necessary to make power or at the very least run stock guns.

I am am interested in cast bullet 9mm data that works. Maybe a nice 135 grain coated bullet would be the ticket.

TrophyHunter thank you very much for QuickLoad data!!!! You ran some for me in the past and it seems to be spot on with the chronograph. You are doing INGO a great service.

 

[rvb]

Tagged. I have 7 pounds of Clays in an open jug that I would love to use up. Even at max published loads I can not seem to make power factor. Only load I have found so far that will work for me is 3.9-4.0 under a 230 grain LRN in 45 acp.

I use 4.1 clays under 230 gr FMJ, @ 1.240-1.245". Gets 170-171 PF from my Kart Barrel. std dev isn't super at ~15 but I live with it.

4.0 and a little longer wouldn't meet PF and I had std dev around 75fps.

When I was working up the load I did some reading and apparently all the older hodgdon manuals had a higher max load, something like 4.3gr for .45. I see no pressure signs, and 45 is such low pressure I'm not concerned being .1 over max regardless.

Man is it a sweet, soft, flat shooting round... perfect for practical shooting sports. And accurate, too.
(https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...eld-range-officer-operator-2.html#post6739014)

ymmv, imo, not responsible for damage to you or equipment, etc etc

-rvb

 

[VERT]

RVB it seems everyone I talk to pushes the clays a tenth over so over published max to make power. That scares me because the powder does not drop that consistently for me. I don't mind going to the max and then sneaking over, but in my case if I try to drop 4.1 grains some cases might get 4.2-4.3 grains. That said I am sure guys know what they are doing.

 

[rvb]

RVB it seems everyone I talk to pushes the clays a tenth over so over published max to make power. That scares me because the powder does not drop that consistently for me. I don't mind going to the max and then sneaking over, but in my case if I try to drop 4.1 grains some cases might get 4.2-4.3 grains.

unusual for a Dillon w/ clays.
static problems perhaps?
how much are you belling?

-rvb

 

[VERT]

unusual for a Dillon w/ clays.
static problems perhaps?
how much are you belling?

-rvb

I wipe the measure down with a dryer sheet which helps. I will admit I am somewhat aggressive with my belling. I was shaving lead during seating so opened it a bit more.

The 230 grain LRN load shoots good. It just runs my 1911s which are not sprung for gaming in that they have 17-18 pound recoil springs. But it does run and is accurate. I have yet to put it across the chronograph.

I dont not shoot a lot of .45 anymore compared to 9mm though. Going to take me a long time to shoot up a jug of Clays.

 

[trophyhunter]

Tagged. I have 7 pounds of Clays in an open jug that I would love to use up. Even at max published loads I can not seem to make power factor. Only load I have found so far that will work for me is 3.9-4.0 under a 230 grain LRN in 45 acp. I have been tempted to try some Clays in 9mm but the narrow window for charge weight makes me nervous. The powder does not meter as consistently as others in my Dillon and it seems that max charges are necessary to make power or at the very least run stock guns.

I am am interested in cast bullet 9mm data that works. Maybe a nice 135 grain coated bullet would be the ticket.

TrophyHunter thank you very much for QuickLoad data!!!! You ran some for me in the past and it seems to be spot on with the chronograph. You are doing INGO a great service.

Glad to help, those charts are really easy to plug in the data and generate predictions. I don't spend much time on here but if you ever need a load worked up send me a PM those come to email so I'll get a notification and can run one for you anytime.

 

[rvb]

I will admit I am somewhat aggressive with my belling. I was shaving lead during seating so opened it a bit more.

that's ok, imo. I think you can get inconsistent powder throws w/ too little bell... need to make sure the funnel is pushed up completely to ensure full powder bar movement. I like between 0.015 and 0.020 bell...

-rvb

 

[cobber]

Yea, 4 grains could get dicey with a bullet setback I'd load no longer than 1.125 to use less powder to make the pressure ceiling here's Quickload numbers on that round for you.

Super info, thanks! I have been reloading with Alliant Promo, but it's a bit dirty so I thought I would try something new...

 

[cobber]

I don't know where the crazy 4.0+ loads were coming from, for 9mm at least.

I do have a Hodgdon 'manual' I got with my Lee 'Precision' press that gives a 3.7 max for 124 gr. FMJ and 3.9 for 115 gr. HP for Clays. Online they give the same data for the 115 gr., but then have a 124 gr. load for a lead bullet, starting at 2.7 gr. of Clays.

It would be nice if manufacturers could be a little more thorough in their data...

 

[rvb]

I don't know where the crazy 4.0+ loads were coming from, for 9mm at least.

Just to be clear, some of us were talking about .45ACP. I have no experience w. Clays in 9.

-rvb

 

[cobber]

Just to be clear, some of us were talking about .45ACP. I have no experience w. Clays in 9.

-rvb

Got that. It seems like it is better suited to .45, but I have a # so load I will.

 

[m_deaner]

I have tried a few loads with Clays and 9mm. Never could find a load that was accurate. I like slower powders for 9mm. Have been using WSF the last few years with great results.

 

[bwframe]

I have a dozen pounds of Clay's/ClayDot. Love to find a decent metering system for the Dillon to throw heavy bullet and light bullet 9mm loads.

 

[cobber]

Worked up two loads that I thought would be 'safe', 2.8 and 2.9 grains with the XTP 124 gr., OAL set at 1.15".

Velocities consistently in the mid-800 fps range. Almost like shooting .45 again! I'm going to stick with the 2.9 and set the bullets a little deeper for OAL 1.09". Pray for me!

 

[VERT]

Worked up two loads that I thought would be 'safe', 2.8 and 2.9 grains with the XTP 124 gr., OAL set at 1.15".

Velocities consistently in the mid-800 fps range. Almost like shooting .45 again! I'm going to stick with the 2.9 and set the bullets a little deeper for OAL 1.09". Pray for me!

1.15" is long for an XTP. I think 1.06"-1.09" was the hornady recommendation.

850 fps would only be a 105 power factor load.

 

[cobber]

1.15" is long for an XTP. I think 1.06"-1.09" was the hornady recommendation.

850 fps would only be a 105 power factor load.

It is smooth shooting, though!

 

[VERT]

It is smooth shooting, though!

I would like to try those loads. I wonder if they would even cycle some of my pistols. There are a couple thoughts on reloading. One is figure out which loads are soft and accurate enough then spring the guns to run. The other would be to leave the guns alone and put enough powder in the case to make things function. Clays is interesting as it creates quite a bit of pressure quickly but doesn't push the bullet very fast. I had problems either making power factor or even getting the guns to cycle with stock weight springs. I admit the perception is it shoots soft.

Maybe someday I will try 2.9 grains under a 124 grain coated bullet.