Clays for 9mm?

[VERT]

TrophyHunter I would be interested in seeing the following.

9mm
Powder: Clays
Bullet Type: Lead Round Nose (130 Leadx RN?)
sized: 0.356
Bullet Weight: 135 grains
bullet length: 0.63"
COAL: 1.14" - 1.15"
barrel length: 4"-5"

The goal here would be to create a safe 130 power factor load. (lets shoot for 960-980 fps) I have played with the 135s just a bit with Win231 and found them to shoot soft and feed reliably. Seems like the 135 lead bullets are pretty similar across manufactures. Hogdon has some published data 130 grain bullets and 124 lead so 135 lead RN seems reasonable and the heavier bullet will work at lower velocities.

 

[rvb]

There are a couple thoughts on reloading. One is figure out which loads are soft and accurate enough then spring the guns to run. The other would be to leave the guns alone and put enough powder in the case to make things function. ... I had problems either making power factor or even getting the guns to cycle with stock weight springs.

IMO most guns are over-sprung from the factory. they have to assume that most folks a) wont keep up on spring maintenance and b ) it's better for customers to blame the ammo for not cycling than blame the gun for not feeding and c) a few customers, esp leo, will run a greater diet of hotter loads. I don't know if I own a gun w/ factory weight springs (even though my 9mm competition reloads are hotter than most factory loads at 135PF). Even if everything else is held the same, the gun will shoot flatter w/ lighter recoil springs. just my opinion...

-rvb

 

[VERT]

IMO most guns are over-sprung from the factory. they have to assume that most folks a) wont keep up on spring maintenance and b ) it's better for customers to blame the ammo for not cycling than blame the gun for not feeding and c) a few customers, esp leo, will run a greater diet of hotter loads. I don't know if I own a gun w/ factory weight springs (even though my 9mm competition reloads are hotter than most factory loads at 135PF). Even if everything else is held the same, the gun will shoot flatter w/ lighter recoil springs. just my opinion...

-rvb

I will play with springs on my range only guns or if they won't run right. My wife had a 9mm Kimber that was setup completely wrong! That said I tend to run a heavier recoil spring then most because I like a little extra umph. Just depends.

I have a bunch of polymer guns that I keep as demo and loaner guns for instructing and don't mess with those at all. Since my goal is cheap bulk ammo I tend to load so those guns will roll. But the idea of a heavy Bullet, soft recoil 9mm for my single stack minor is appealing. I like working up loads and playing but I just run out of time to dink around. Easier to start cranking on the square deal to get some range fodder.

 

[rvb]

But the idea of a heavy Bullet, soft recoil 9mm for my single stack minor is appealing. I like working up loads and playing but I just run out of time to dink around. Easier to start cranking on the square deal to get some range fodder.

I don't dink around. I've loaded the same round since I first got it worked up when I started loading in 2005. I hate working up loads.
Nice thing about a heavier bullet / faster powder combo is while yes you are pushing pressure a little more, PF is PF. My "gamer" loads are much softer to shoot than factory 115s, but make 3-8PF more. They cycle everything, incl 9mm ARs (direct blowback, lots of bolt mass and recoil spring weight).

shoot flat? you betcha! (this is 147s w/ TG. of course, technique is more important than ammo...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-zBWAEoM4A

-rvb

 

[VERT]

I don't dink around. I've loaded the same round since I first got it worked up when I started loading in 2005. I hate working up loads.
Nice thing about a heavier bullet / faster powder combo is while yes you are pushing pressure a little more, PF is PF. My "gamer" loads are much softer to shoot than factory 115s, but make 3-8PF more. They cycle everything, incl 9mm ARs (direct blowback, lots of bolt mass and recoil spring weight).

shoot flat? you betcha! (this is 147s w/ TG. of course, technique is more important than ammo...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-zBWAEoM4A

-rvb

Love to see your load data sometime. I have had really good luck with 124 grain lead TCs over win231. They feed in all my guns, accuracy is excellent and they are inexpensive. Since I have a couple cases of bullets and couple jugs of powder my buddies and I just crank them out. But the 135s and 147s I have played with feel softer. I shot several thousand 147 grain lead over 3.4 grains of win231, made 135+ PF. Shot good but not as accurate as the 124s. Plus they were long and some pistols wouldn't chamber them. I recently test loaded 100 135 grain LRN and they felt and fed nice in my 1911. I kept some to run over the chrono when I get a chance.

edit: Yeah I don't shoot that fast even with my PCC! But my split times with 147s and lighter recoil spring was quicker then the 124s.

 

[VERT]

TrophyHunter replied to my PM and as always was a big help. Below is a clip from what he sent me using a 133 grain bullet with Clays. Hogdan says 3.3 max for 125 grain LCN and 3.0 max for 130 gr BERB. Lyman data which says 2.8 grain is max for 147 grain. So my guess is 3.1 grain max for the 135 grain bullet and that looks consistent with the data below.

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms


-16.0 72 2.77 862 219 25150 2475 100.0 0.528
-14.0 74 2.84 874 225 26212 2527 100.0 0.519
-12.0 76 2.90 885 231 27295 2579 100.0 0.510
-10.0 77 2.97 897 238 28400 2631 100.0 0.501
-08.0 79 3.04 909 244 29527 2683 100.0 0.493
-06.0 81 3.10 920 250 30675 2734 100.0 0.484 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 83 3.17 931 256 31846 2785 100.0 0.477 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 84 3.23 942 262 33039 2837 100.0 0.469 ! Near Maximum !

 

[rvb]

Love to see your load data sometime.

147gr Zero jhp. 1.150" oal. 3.3-3.4 TG. Fed or Win primers. mixed brass.
gets 135PF from a G34, 130 from a G19. about 132 from a Beretta 92. consistently single-digit Std Dev. Quite accurate in any gun I've tried them in.

-rvb

 

[VERT]

147gr Zero jhp. 1.150" oal. 3.3-3.4 TG. Fed or Win primers. mixed brass.
gets 135PF from a G34, 130 from a G19. about 132 from a Beretta 92. consistently single-digit Std Dev. Quite accurate in any gun I've tried them in.

-rvb

I wrote it down on an index card and placing it in my load book. Labelled it Ryan VB Signature Match Load! Which is good enough for me.

 

[rvb]

I wrote it down on an index card and placing it in my load book. Labelled it Ryan VB Signature Match Load! Which is good enough for me.

You forgot the "[SUP]TM[/SUP]" !! LOL.

-rvb

 

[Bosshoss]

I have a dozen pounds of Clay's/ClayDot. Love to find a decent metering system for the Dillon to throw heavy bullet and light bullet 9mm loads.

I have been dropping 2.6 grains of clays for 3 or 4 years with no problems(Dillon press). Heard all kinds of stories and solutions for "powder bridging" from aquarium pumps to polishing the insides of the powder measure. Heard old style powder measures with the return springs was the way to go. Heard the extra small powder charge bar was the hot setup.
I'm using the new style powder measure with the included small powder bar. NEVER any issues. Very consistent.
I think the clunky operation of the new style powder measure helps with a consistent charge drop and and is enough to keep any powder bridging from occurring.

 

[bwframe]

I have been dropping 2.6 grains of clays for 3 or 4 years with no problems(Dillon press). Heard all kinds of stories and solutions for "powder bridging" from aquarium pumps to polishing the insides of the powder measure. Heard old style powder measures with the return springs was the way to go. Heard the extra small powder charge bar was the hot setup.
I'm using the new style powder measure with the included small powder bar. NEVER any issues. Very consistent.
I think the clunky operation of the new style powder measure helps with a consistent charge drop and and is enough to keep any powder bridging from occurring.

Thanks Paul, that's encouraging. I'll look into that.

 

[bwframe]

I don't dink around. I've loaded the same round since I first got it worked up when I started loading in 2005. I hate working up loads.
Nice thing about a heavier bullet / faster powder combo is while yes you are pushing pressure a little more, PF is PF. My "gamer" loads are much softer to shoot than factory 115s, but make 3-8PF more. They cycle everything, incl 9mm ARs (direct blowback, lots of bolt mass and recoil spring weight).

shoot flat? you betcha! (this is 147s w/ TG. of course, technique is more important than ammo...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-zBWAEoM4A

-rvb

Is the consensus among the top USPSA PCC shooters to use their same production minor power factor 147gr 9mm load for PCC?

 

[rvb]

I'm using the new style powder measure with the included small powder bar. NEVER any issues. Very consistent.
I think the clunky operation of the new style powder measure helps with a consistent charge drop and and is enough to keep any powder bridging from occurring.

I came to the same conclusion, for smaller charges. For large charges, slow and smooth still seems to help just to give the charge time to flow down the funnel (e.g. 25gr H335).

-rvb

 

[rvb]

Is the consensus among the top USPSA PCC shooters to use their same production minor power factor 147gr 9mm load for PCC?

I haven't paid much attention to what other folks are using in PCC. All I know is my production load has worked fine in my PCC and I'm not about to develop a new load and inventory it or other components. I would, however, be suspect of declared PF if someone's production load doesn't run their PCC.

Thanks for the reminder, I need to get on ordering a new barrel for my PCC to make it more usable for the division....

-rvb

 

[cobber]

I am slowly creeping up the velocity ladder, but still under 1000 fps. Crazy...

Still finding it a smooth shooter, though.

 

[BrianT]

Clays is supposed to be the softest shooting 9mm but it's at max before it make minor. If one is brave enough Titewad is absolutely dirt cheap and can make some good 9mm loads but realize there is very little published data on this so tread carefully.