Climate Change Update........

[smokingman]

I keep hearing about how heavy EVs are in comparison to ICE cars. Look at the Durango Hellcat compared to my EV6 GT. Costs more, weighs more, slower, brakes longer, turns worse. The EV6 is a bit smaller.
View attachment 345937


View attachment 345939

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/dimensions-and-weights-of-common-suvs

Toyota Land Cruiser 3262pounds​

Land Rover 2,594 pounds​

Jeep CJ 2,137 pounds​

Jeep Wrangler 3,948 pounds​

Now if you make them hybrids and add the largest engine possible yes the weight goes way up. You also choose a larger SUV to compare yours to, add in you are limited to 206 mile range, during perfect weather. Weight is only a partial consideration. How about life expectancy? How long/many miles is your battery under full warranty? The electric motors? The computers?
How about insurance(both the car and homeowners) cost?

 

[JCSR]

Our GX460 comes in a 5200# and I wouldn't trade it for any EV out there today.

 

[BeDome]

Government fixing a problem they created.

"Sometimes it seems as if there are more solutions than problems. On closer scrutiny, it turns out that many of today's problems are a result of yesterday's solutions."

Thomas Sowell

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

"Sometimes it seems as if there are more solutions than problems. On closer scrutiny, it turns out that many of today's problems are a result of yesterday's solutions."

Thomas Sowell

If there’s anything we need more of it would be Thomas Sowell’s.

 

[BeDome]

If there’s anything we need more of it would be Thomas Sowell’s.

I agree and I won't apologize for dropping snippets of his wisdom where it applies.
Not even if I overdo it by a fair margin.

 

[KLB]

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/dimensions-and-weights-of-common-suvs

Toyota Land Cruiser 3262pounds​

Land Rover 2,594 pounds​

Jeep CJ 2,137 pounds​

Jeep Wrangler 3,948 pounds​

Now if you make them hybrids and add the largest engine possible yes the weight goes way up. You also choose a larger SUV to compare yours to, add in you are limited to 206 mile range, during perfect weather.

Did you miss the performance comparison, which is what the response was too? I actually looked at that very vehicle when I was shopping. My range hasn't been an issue, which I knew going into the purchase.

Weight is only a partial consideration. How about life expectancy? How long/many miles is your battery under full warranty? The electric motors?

10 years 120K miles.

The computers?

Computers are a wash. All new vehicles have computers, especially performance ones.

How about insurance(both the car and homeowners) cost?

My insurance went up $240 for the year over the VW Golf R I sold before buying it. A car that was worth 20K less. Homeowners was unaffected.

 

[BugI02]

Because off the top of my head it is the closest performance wise to the EV I have. There are not a lot of SUVs/Crossovers that have that kind of performance from an ICE engine.

Track performance varies by EV. They aren't all Mach-Es.

Understood, and yours is a bargain for that level of performance; but skid pad performance is not terribly indicative of track performance either

A lighter car with a similar power to weight ratio will almost always prevail in the real world in anything other than a straight line because excess weight is a significant impediment to braking and turn in. That's the point I wanted to emphasize

"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." - Colin Chapman

 

[KLB]

Understood, and yours is a bargain for that level of performance; but skid pad performance is not terribly indicative of track performance either

A lighter car with a similar power to weight ratio will almost always prevail in the real world in anything other than a straight line because excess weight is a significant impediment to braking and turn in. That's the point I wanted to emphasize

"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." - Colin Chapman

It's an SUV though, not a car. I have no illusions about it outperforming cars on a track, although it apparently can do fairly well from what little I can find.

For me though, it is all about road performance anyway. I'll never take it to a track. I wouldn't want to have to buy new tires that often. It's extremely satisfying to punch it on the road and go around slower objects.

The best part of the EV over the ICE is the lack of transmission. No downshifting when I want it to go. Just push the pedal and instant power.

This is the longest track I can find times for and these are the ten times listed around the EV6 GT

Virginia International Raceway Grand East Course (post 01/2014) lap times - FastestLaps.com

List of fastest lap times for Virginia International Raceway Grand East Course (post 01/2014). Updated February 2024.

fastestlaps.com

 

[jamil]

Here's the thing. Some people like EV's. Some people like ICE. Even if politics weren't involved. People get to have their reasons for liking them. People have their reasons for disliking them. They don't have to even be rational. You like what you like.

But. If you like them or hate them for political reasons, it probably has nothing to do with the car itself. The government shoving EV's down your throat isn't what makes EV's bad or good. It's how well and how long it meets your needs, including the wizbang factor, if that's your thing.

 

[KLB]

The .gov generally sucks, whatever they happen to be doing.

 

[BeDome]

The .gov generally sucks, whatever they happen to be doing.

"Those who cry out that the government should 'do something' never even ask for data on what has actually happened when the government did something, compared to what actually happened when the government did nothing."

Thomas Sowell

 

[BeDome]

An example:

 

[BugI02]

It's an SUV though, not a car. I have no illusions about it outperforming cars on a track, although it apparently can do fairly well from what little I can find.

For me though, it is all about road performance anyway. I'll never take it to a track. I wouldn't want to have to buy new tires that often. It's extremely satisfying to punch it on the road and go around slower objects.

The best part of the EV over the ICE is the lack of transmission. No downshifting when I want it to go. Just push the pedal and instant power.

This is the longest track I can find times for and these are the ten times listed around the EV6 GT

Virginia International Raceway Grand East Course (post 01/2014) lap times - FastestLaps.com

List of fastest lap times for Virginia International Raceway Grand East Course (post 01/2014). Updated February 2024.

fastestlaps.com

View attachment 346101

Yeah, VIR has a lot of straight or mostly straight track. I'd be interested in times for something like Nelson Ledges or better yet Waterford Hills. The longest straight at Waterford is 1800 feet, and although GM engineers would bring out one off factory experimental cars the track record was held for a very long time by an Escort RS Cosworth

Corvettes are underperformers at the track because they are powerful but heavy. They need longer straights because they have to brake all that weight from speed and have to start earlier. If I had my druthers I'd have an S2000 or an oil cooled Porsche, but I'm pretty happy with my WRX which is more practical ($$$) as a daily driver

 

[KLB]

Yeah, VIR has a lot of straight or mostly straight track. I'd be interested in times for something like Nelson Ledges or better yet Waterford Hills. The longest straight at Waterford is 1800 feet, and although GM engineers would bring out one off factory experimental cars the track record was held for a very long time by an Escort RS Cosworth

Corvettes are underperformers at the track because they are powerful but heavy. They need longer straights because they have to brake all that weight from speed and have to start earlier. If I had my druthers I'd have an S2000 or an oil cooled Porsche, but I'm pretty happy with my WRX which is more practical ($$$) as a daily driver

I loved my Golf Rs, but I was wanting something that sat a little higher and was easier to get into and out of. The EV6 fills that need, gives me better performance, and still is a useful vehicle for everyday life, being a crossover/SUV.

 

[BugI02]

I loved my Golf Rs, but I was wanting something that sat a little higher and was easier to get into and out of. The EV6 fills that need, gives me better performance, and still is a useful vehicle for everyday life, being a crossover/SUV.

You were right, in the specs it doesn't seem especially heavy for the type of vehicle it is. Have you had it long enough to form an opinion about tire wear?
That's another EV Achille's Heel as it is a combination of weight and high torque throughout the rev band. I hear that tire manufacturers are talking about making tires especially designed for EVs, but sticky and long life have an inverse relationship. If they just make the compounds harder it will be no bueno

 

[Ingomike]

You were right, in the specs it doesn't seem especially heavy for the type of vehicle it is. Have you had it long enough to form an opinion about tire wear?
That's another EV Achille's Heel as it is a combination of weight and high torque throughout the rev band. I hear that tire manufacturers are talking about making tires especially designed for EVs, but sticky and long life have an inverse relationship. If they just make the compounds harder it will be no bueno

Most people don’t know that few tires are “full feature” tires, meaning that th features that feel so awesome leaving the tire shop are only present for a short time or mileage. I have often explained it this way, the first 10k or so are the awesome feel, then using compounding the got to get the mileage guarantee compound is what you get.

I have been told that Michelin is the only tire that has the same compound and tire cuts from new to the wear bars. Not sure if that is true but I love me some Michelins…

 

[KLB]

You were right, in the specs it doesn't seem especially heavy for the type of vehicle it is. Have you had it long enough to form an opinion about tire wear?
That's another EV Achille's Heel as it is a combination of weight and high torque throughout the rev band. I hear that tire manufacturers are talking about making tires especially designed for EVs, but sticky and long life have an inverse relationship. If they just make the compounds harder it will be no bueno

I'm afraid I don't drive enough anymore to get a good opinion on tire wear. I always use Summer and Winter tires though, neither of which are known for their longevity. 20-30K was about it for the Summer tires. The Winter tires generally made it the 3-4 years I would have a car. I'll see what the wear is on the Winter is in the next week, once I get them swapped.

I'll never get tires based upon wear life. I always look for the best performance for the season. I want my Summer tires sticky when dry and when it is wet, and obviously Winter tires for the cold/snow/ice.

 

[jamil]

You were right, in the specs it doesn't seem especially heavy for the type of vehicle it is. Have you had it long enough to form an opinion about tire wear?
That's another EV Achille's Heel as it is a combination of weight and high torque throughout the rev band. I hear that tire manufacturers are talking about making tires especially designed for EVs, but sticky and long life have an inverse relationship. If they just make the compounds harder it will be no bueno

I think Tesla already has special tires designed for use with EV’s. In terms of weight, KLB’s car is on par with my Grand Cherokee. Driving habits probably makes up the bulk of the rest. But, if you got it, ain’t no red blooded dude gonna not use it. And that just means you buy new tires more often.

 

[KLB]

I think Tesla already has special tires designed for use with EV’s. In terms of weight, KLB’s car is on par with my Grand Cherokee. Driving habits probably makes up the bulk of the rest. But, if you got it, ain’t no red blooded dude gonna not use it. And that just means you buy new tires more often.

It will bring a smile to your face on a regular basis.

I'll say it again. Instant throttle response is the best part. When I want the thing to go, it goes.

 

[bobzilla]

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/dimensions-and-weights-of-common-suvs

Toyota Land Cruiser 3262pounds​

Land Rover 2,594 pounds​

Jeep CJ 2,137 pounds​

Jeep Wrangler 3,948 pounds​

Now if you make them hybrids and add the largest engine possible yes the weight goes way up. You also choose a larger SUV to compare yours to, add in you are limited to 206 mile range, during perfect weather. Weight is only a partial consideration. How about life expectancy? How long/many miles is your battery under full warranty? The electric motors? The computers?
How about insurance(both the car and homeowners) cost?

Why would you use weights from vehicles that are 50 years old? 2024 Land cruiser weighs 5038lbs. Wrangler is 4100-5200lbs depending on body, Land Rover Disco is 4800-5200lbs. That is a very disingenuous argument about weights.