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Conceal, conceal, conceal...SHOW IT!
- Thread starter JetGirl
- Start date
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Thanks to Sylvain bumping this 
... this popped up and I didn't see the date right away! ... and I'm glad. so JetGirl gets some bonus rep!! Great Job! And glad it ended well.
So any fresh news for the masses? My Wife is still patiently waiting for her LTCH ... but has plans for a compact 9 soon. What did your cousin (?) choose? any logic why?
I am also still trying somewhat to convince her to body carry, but she's probably most interested in a GOOD actual purse with CC holster..
OH ... and how's the dog?
thank goodness for man's (and woman's) best friends!!!
... this popped up and I didn't see the date right away! ... and I'm glad. so JetGirl gets some bonus rep!! Great Job! And glad it ended well.So any fresh news for the masses? My Wife is still patiently waiting for her LTCH ... but has plans for a compact 9 soon. What did your cousin (?) choose? any logic why?
I am also still trying somewhat to convince her to body carry, but she's probably most interested in a GOOD actual purse with CC holster..
OH ... and how's the dog?
thank goodness for man's (and woman's) best friends!!!doubleshock
Plinker
i as well just saw these posts. these are the kind of true stories that can make "believers" out of some firearm resistant folks male or female! +one jetgirl!
You think READING it was long...try WRITING it.
But I know what you mean...I'm the same way.
I'll start out by skimming and if it looks worthy, I'll go back and actually read it. HA
Actually, I sent her a message about a week ago asking ...and also asking if she wanted to plan a range trip with me regardless of any purchase (she could shoot all my stuff if she wanted)...but I haven't heard back yet!
She's pretty busy, though. So I'll wait a bit and try again. I'd even consent to go shooting at an indoor range if she'd like...and I hate that! LOL
Probably still getting praises and treats!
In this weather, an indoor range has a certain appeal. Now, if I could just find an indoor 100-200 yard range . . . .
Here is me general reply to any women looking to get a weapon for personal protection
(*I need to set down and edit this some time, please grammar nazi's back off.
and while I have no love for kimbers, that fact that you carry the gun you are comfortable with, and shoot well is worthy of applause)
Basic safetey is paramount. I'd read this first. NRA Gun Safety Rules
and order this book,
Amazon.com: Basics of Pistol Shooting (9780935998009): National Rifle Association: Books this will help your shooting alot, it points out proper position, training techniques, and will even help Identify marksmaneship issues so you can fix them
once you have the basics on how to shoot picking a gun comes in, price is a factor, but be willing to spend at least 500 bucks,
TELL GUN STORE OWNERS, AND LOCAL MALE FRIENDS TO P!$$ OFF. alot of guys tend to steer women towards small " J-framed revolvers" they are light, easy to carry safe, but they are not comfortable to shoot, especially in extended ranges sessions. which meas you won't practice that much. they have small capacity and take practice to reload quickly, and are not too accurate especially past 7 yards.
find a gun you are comfortable shooting, something not too big or too heavy as they begin to be hard to conceal, but pistol you can shoot with some accuracy, ( 8 inches at 25 yards is a good goal)
find one that isn't too heavy when loaded, or you will end up leaving it at home, in the car or in your purse, and not with you,
night sights are a plus.
things to thing about while shopping.
can you operate the pistol.
is the slide to hard to pull back if you have a malfunction such as a faliure to feed , or failure to eject?
can you reach the magazine release comfortably?
can you operate the safetey?
semi auto pistols come in many flavors, Single action, ( manualy set, or cock , the hammer before firing) double action, cock the hammer and fire in pull of the trigger pull, single action/ double action gives you the ability to fire without cocking the hammer or from a single action mode.
safeties, most guns have forms of safeties engineered into them to keep them from going off without the trigger being pulled, and alot of them have maual safeties on them to prevent the gun from going by bumbing the trigger.
types of guns.
small pistols are easy to conceal but limit capacity, Large guns are more pleasent to shoot but there heft is often annoying to drag around.
revolvers tend to hold around 5 shots, don't have a manual safety, but have a llong, heavy trigger pull, which makes them hard to shoot accuratley,
DA/SA guns like the beretta 92 and sig P226 have the option of fireing from either double action or single action.
1911 is a single action gun, you have to cock the hammer before it will fire the first shot but every subsequent shot the slide sets the hammer.
Double action only guns, like hammerless revolvers, Glocks, Springfeild Xd's, only require a trigger squeze to set them off.
I higly recomend guns without manual safeties, sigs, Glocks and revolves for defensive purposes. this allows you to get the gun out and get shots off and not having to train to remove a safety. nothing is worse than when guys get shot trying to defend themselves because they failed to get the safetey off in time.
Sigs are a great choice because many of the traditional sigs, ( P220,P226, P228, P229) have a heavy double action pull and a lite single action trigger pull, they lack a manual safetey.Very accurate guns, but often hefty and many are single stack so low capacity so its out of the holster and boom. Newer models offer double action only triggers.
guns like the Glock, Springfeild Xd, Smith and wesson M&P,and Walther P99 have no manual safeties ( with exception of a few XD models) theses guns sport a lot of great features, high capacity, and low weight, they have no manual safety and light trigger pulls. not a gun for match grade acuracy, but reliable, and accurate enough for peopel sized targets. the biggest warnig with these is they must be carried in a holster as if thrown in a purse or the pants it is too easy to have an accidental discharge and end up burnt and bleeding. with a new hole in your body.
small revolvers are light and reliable, they are simple and almost always go off when the trigger is pulled, the simpliest of pistols to shoot. they fit in pockets, and sport a trigger heavy enough not to be a big risk of accidental discharge. the downside is 5-6 shots and rough sights.
1911 - are a true pro's guns, accurate, and with a lot of safeties, limited capacity and notable recoil. they are not a big risk of accidental discharge but it probperly carried you have to disengage a grip safety, and do one of many other things to make it go boom, it you carry witha round in the chamber you are going to need to either carry hammer cocked, or hammer down, it you carry with the hammer cocked you need to put the thumb saftey on, and it will need to come off before you can shoot, it you carry hammer down you will need to get the hammer cocked in order to shoot it.
I recommend guns with out manual safeties. These guns require a very concious effort in handling, and carrying. but they reward you in a defensive situation by limiting the steps you need to take to make the gun go off. and take a lot less training to be competent to use effectively.
it doesn't matter how cool the gun looks, how great it feels in your hand if you can't shoot it, are afraid to shoot it, can't hit with it, won't carry it doesn't matter what calbier the gun is. you need to find a gun you like, can shoot, and will carry for it to be effective for a defensive gun.
Caliber.
I really like 9mm. effective, easy to shoot, maageable recoil, high capacity, and accurate. that said the best caliber is the one you have with you. a .22 in the pocket is better than a .44 at home. and you need to be able to handle the caliber's recoil because a miss means nothing.
bullets.
cheap is what you are looking for practicing. and I recommend speer Gold dots for defensive use. there are alot of very useful Jacketd hollow points out there, and almost all of them work very well. but I personally know the man that chose Speer Gold dots for the Indiana State police, read his research. What he found is they worked the best across the board, some rounds were more accurate, and some preformed better in heavy clothing, some better in light clothing, but the gold dots worked consistenly well in all tests.
practice.
dry fire is very important,
line up on the target like you plaln to shoot and then sueez the trigger, focus on not puking the gun one way or another, squezing the trigger not pulling it, keeping the sights lined up, and not flinching. use a-zoom snap caps to avoid damage to your gun. and shoot it to . practice reloading the gun, ut the snap caps in the magazines while at the range to simulate a round that didn't go off, and figuring out how to get the bad round out of the barrel and a good one in there.
also practice drawing the gun from the holster and shooting the target, there are a lot of drill syou can do but those can be listed/descrided for a long time and I have written plenty here already.
Carrying.
First off the gun is not a magic wand, If you feel you need a gun. It needs to go off if it leaves the holster. or you can find yourself in a world of hurt. the longer the gun is out and you aren't shooting someone the longer the criminal would have to disarm you. and the longer you have to think about reasons not to shoot him. so if you are going to carry make sure you can shoot someone if you feel you are in danger.
I can't stress this enough. carry the gun, and carry it on you.
If its in your car and you need it while pumping gas or running into the bank, you don't have it with you.
Don't carry it in your purse. I doubt you can dedicate a pocket in you purse for a gun, no lipstick , no pens, nothing that could pull the trigger on accident.pluss I higly doubt you can keep your purse oriented the same way all the time, which means you can always grab the gun from the grip. plus if you get grabbed by the arm and you are holding your purse by the handles then you can't get to it.
carry it on you and the same way, make sure you can get to it regardless of how you are clothed, and make sure you can operate all the safeties or procedures nessasary in order to get a shot off.
I know I wrote alot, but check this out as well.
On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman
(*I need to set down and edit this some time, please grammar nazi's back off.
and while I have no love for kimbers, that fact that you carry the gun you are comfortable with, and shoot well is worthy of applause)
Basic safetey is paramount. I'd read this first. NRA Gun Safety Rules
and order this book,
Amazon.com: Basics of Pistol Shooting (9780935998009): National Rifle Association: Books this will help your shooting alot, it points out proper position, training techniques, and will even help Identify marksmaneship issues so you can fix them
once you have the basics on how to shoot picking a gun comes in, price is a factor, but be willing to spend at least 500 bucks,
TELL GUN STORE OWNERS, AND LOCAL MALE FRIENDS TO P!$$ OFF. alot of guys tend to steer women towards small " J-framed revolvers" they are light, easy to carry safe, but they are not comfortable to shoot, especially in extended ranges sessions. which meas you won't practice that much. they have small capacity and take practice to reload quickly, and are not too accurate especially past 7 yards.
find a gun you are comfortable shooting, something not too big or too heavy as they begin to be hard to conceal, but pistol you can shoot with some accuracy, ( 8 inches at 25 yards is a good goal)
find one that isn't too heavy when loaded, or you will end up leaving it at home, in the car or in your purse, and not with you,
night sights are a plus.
things to thing about while shopping.
can you operate the pistol.
is the slide to hard to pull back if you have a malfunction such as a faliure to feed , or failure to eject?
can you reach the magazine release comfortably?
can you operate the safetey?
semi auto pistols come in many flavors, Single action, ( manualy set, or cock , the hammer before firing) double action, cock the hammer and fire in pull of the trigger pull, single action/ double action gives you the ability to fire without cocking the hammer or from a single action mode.
safeties, most guns have forms of safeties engineered into them to keep them from going off without the trigger being pulled, and alot of them have maual safeties on them to prevent the gun from going by bumbing the trigger.
types of guns.
small pistols are easy to conceal but limit capacity, Large guns are more pleasent to shoot but there heft is often annoying to drag around.
revolvers tend to hold around 5 shots, don't have a manual safety, but have a llong, heavy trigger pull, which makes them hard to shoot accuratley,
DA/SA guns like the beretta 92 and sig P226 have the option of fireing from either double action or single action.
1911 is a single action gun, you have to cock the hammer before it will fire the first shot but every subsequent shot the slide sets the hammer.
Double action only guns, like hammerless revolvers, Glocks, Springfeild Xd's, only require a trigger squeze to set them off.
I higly recomend guns without manual safeties, sigs, Glocks and revolves for defensive purposes. this allows you to get the gun out and get shots off and not having to train to remove a safety. nothing is worse than when guys get shot trying to defend themselves because they failed to get the safetey off in time.
Sigs are a great choice because many of the traditional sigs, ( P220,P226, P228, P229) have a heavy double action pull and a lite single action trigger pull, they lack a manual safetey.Very accurate guns, but often hefty and many are single stack so low capacity so its out of the holster and boom. Newer models offer double action only triggers.
guns like the Glock, Springfeild Xd, Smith and wesson M&P,and Walther P99 have no manual safeties ( with exception of a few XD models) theses guns sport a lot of great features, high capacity, and low weight, they have no manual safety and light trigger pulls. not a gun for match grade acuracy, but reliable, and accurate enough for peopel sized targets. the biggest warnig with these is they must be carried in a holster as if thrown in a purse or the pants it is too easy to have an accidental discharge and end up burnt and bleeding. with a new hole in your body.
small revolvers are light and reliable, they are simple and almost always go off when the trigger is pulled, the simpliest of pistols to shoot. they fit in pockets, and sport a trigger heavy enough not to be a big risk of accidental discharge. the downside is 5-6 shots and rough sights.
1911 - are a true pro's guns, accurate, and with a lot of safeties, limited capacity and notable recoil. they are not a big risk of accidental discharge but it probperly carried you have to disengage a grip safety, and do one of many other things to make it go boom, it you carry witha round in the chamber you are going to need to either carry hammer cocked, or hammer down, it you carry with the hammer cocked you need to put the thumb saftey on, and it will need to come off before you can shoot, it you carry hammer down you will need to get the hammer cocked in order to shoot it.
I recommend guns with out manual safeties. These guns require a very concious effort in handling, and carrying. but they reward you in a defensive situation by limiting the steps you need to take to make the gun go off. and take a lot less training to be competent to use effectively.
it doesn't matter how cool the gun looks, how great it feels in your hand if you can't shoot it, are afraid to shoot it, can't hit with it, won't carry it doesn't matter what calbier the gun is. you need to find a gun you like, can shoot, and will carry for it to be effective for a defensive gun.
Caliber.
I really like 9mm. effective, easy to shoot, maageable recoil, high capacity, and accurate. that said the best caliber is the one you have with you. a .22 in the pocket is better than a .44 at home. and you need to be able to handle the caliber's recoil because a miss means nothing.
bullets.
cheap is what you are looking for practicing. and I recommend speer Gold dots for defensive use. there are alot of very useful Jacketd hollow points out there, and almost all of them work very well. but I personally know the man that chose Speer Gold dots for the Indiana State police, read his research. What he found is they worked the best across the board, some rounds were more accurate, and some preformed better in heavy clothing, some better in light clothing, but the gold dots worked consistenly well in all tests.
practice.
dry fire is very important,
line up on the target like you plaln to shoot and then sueez the trigger, focus on not puking the gun one way or another, squezing the trigger not pulling it, keeping the sights lined up, and not flinching. use a-zoom snap caps to avoid damage to your gun. and shoot it to . practice reloading the gun, ut the snap caps in the magazines while at the range to simulate a round that didn't go off, and figuring out how to get the bad round out of the barrel and a good one in there.
also practice drawing the gun from the holster and shooting the target, there are a lot of drill syou can do but those can be listed/descrided for a long time and I have written plenty here already.
Carrying.
First off the gun is not a magic wand, If you feel you need a gun. It needs to go off if it leaves the holster. or you can find yourself in a world of hurt. the longer the gun is out and you aren't shooting someone the longer the criminal would have to disarm you. and the longer you have to think about reasons not to shoot him. so if you are going to carry make sure you can shoot someone if you feel you are in danger.
I can't stress this enough. carry the gun, and carry it on you.
If its in your car and you need it while pumping gas or running into the bank, you don't have it with you.
Don't carry it in your purse. I doubt you can dedicate a pocket in you purse for a gun, no lipstick , no pens, nothing that could pull the trigger on accident.pluss I higly doubt you can keep your purse oriented the same way all the time, which means you can always grab the gun from the grip. plus if you get grabbed by the arm and you are holding your purse by the handles then you can't get to it.
carry it on you and the same way, make sure you can get to it regardless of how you are clothed, and make sure you can operate all the safeties or procedures nessasary in order to get a shot off.
I know I wrote alot, but check this out as well.
On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman
speaking of long reads
Wow. my fingers are tired just thinkin' about typing that long at a stretch.
I'm proud of you too, J/G. Good to see somebody else carrying cocked and locked.
As it should be. I think I'm selling my last 1911 this w/e tho'. I've gone to all Sigs. I just shoot them better than my Kimber. And I kinda wanted to go to one platform instead of three or four.
Wow. my fingers are tired just thinkin' about typing that long at a stretch.
I'm proud of you too, J/G. Good to see somebody else carrying cocked and locked.
As it should be. I think I'm selling my last 1911 this w/e tho'. I've gone to all Sigs. I just shoot them better than my Kimber. And I kinda wanted to go to one platform instead of three or four.No kidding! lol
I have to disagree with some of it, though...especially the part that says "1911 - are a true pro's guns".
Um, I'm certainly not a "pro", but I sure love them best.
And I'd never advocate carrying with "no safety" to a n00b or novice...
Jet girl, this is a big difference of opinion here. For a defensive use I would prefer a novice NOhave to contend with safeties. Noboby I have met gets hesitant about newbies handling da/sa revolvers, or sigs and they don't have a saftey. I see anything with a manual and grip safties as extra considerations during an encounter where time is precious. Somebody new to shooting or with very little training can operate a standard glock, m&p( sans thumb saftey) and a double action revolver.
Pro= professional= proficient. And as your story points out you should always have your gun handy. I for one dont see a need to scare potential handgun carrier with complicated levers. I know for many people thumb safties are intuitive. But after training. I encourage training, but at some stage we are all new, and I'm not gonna tell someone not to carry until they have had training, as I think that is a personal choice to make.
Pro= professional= proficient. And as your story points out you should always have your gun handy. I for one dont see a need to scare potential handgun carrier with complicated levers. I know for many people thumb safties are intuitive. But after training. I encourage training, but at some stage we are all new, and I'm not gonna tell someone not to carry until they have had training, as I think that is a personal choice to make.
Last edited:
Jay
Gotta watch us old guys.....cause if you don't....
Opinions are free...... to that end, for one to carry a handgun without training, is beyond ludicrous.... not to mention a danger to all who may encounter that person. Even children toddle first.... THEN walk.
Safeties, are totally subjective. If you're not smart enough, or have the physical dexterity to make a fist, and flip a light switch, then a different path is required. Whatever works for ya.
Jay I have developed some respect for you, so I will put this nicely. My thoughts about safeties has nothing to do with being smart enough to operate the safety, it seems an unnecessary complication in a high stress situation.
And crawling before you walk is fine, but staying focused on the very basic things should be more than enough at the beginning. You know them by heart, don't point a gun at anything you aren't willing to destroy, finger off the trigger till you are on target and ready to shoot....
Simple training is good, people should be able to operate their gun. But when you say training I start thinking about organized training classes, with Larry vickers, or at front site, or with some of the many fine an competent instructors that frequent ingo. which can take months to get through as schedules don't always line up. In my girlfriends case where she was motivated to get a gun because three guys rapped a woman in front of that her family lest than a mile from my girlfriends house. The time it took her to find a class was near 6 weeks. plus there is a wait to purchase in michigan when you don't have your permit. Imagine she was being stalked that is too much time passed in my opinion.
I guess I'm wondering what you consider training sufficient to carry a handgun?
And crawling before you walk is fine, but staying focused on the very basic things should be more than enough at the beginning. You know them by heart, don't point a gun at anything you aren't willing to destroy, finger off the trigger till you are on target and ready to shoot....
Simple training is good, people should be able to operate their gun. But when you say training I start thinking about organized training classes, with Larry vickers, or at front site, or with some of the many fine an competent instructors that frequent ingo. which can take months to get through as schedules don't always line up. In my girlfriends case where she was motivated to get a gun because three guys rapped a woman in front of that her family lest than a mile from my girlfriends house. The time it took her to find a class was near 6 weeks. plus there is a wait to purchase in michigan when you don't have your permit. Imagine she was being stalked that is too much time passed in my opinion.
I guess I'm wondering what you consider training sufficient to carry a handgun?
Jay
Gotta watch us old guys.....cause if you don't....
One should be proficient in the operation of his/her selected firearm. One should know the application of deadly force. One should know the potential downside to firearms carry. Anyone mature enough to consider carrying a firearm should be able to operate it efficiently. I'm not familiar with any safety mechanism that takes days to master. If your girlfriend had to wait days to purchase, that would have provided sufficient time to master any given safety. I'm not saying that that a 1911 is the end all firearm for anyone. I just don't agree with excluding it from any consideration soley because of a safety. The grip safety does NOT have to be conciously applied/released. You grip the gun, you're past that safety. Regardless of the platform, to arm anyone without some ground school is foolish, and dangerous. A basic pistol class will solve function issues with virtually any platform. Before anyone jumps on this wagon, I don't think one should have to "take a class" to obtain a carry license/permit, but to ask someone to carry a lethal weapon and be able to protect themselves with it, WITHOUT endangering others, is quite a tall order for most people, without any training/guidance at all.
Most newbies do not know the safety rules by heart. That's why classes are held and those rules are in the operating manuals of every firearm out there. I'd guess that by the time the safety rules are committed to memory, the use of a simple thumb safety can also be memorized. Before you introduce stress into the thumb safety scene, ask someone under the same stress to recite the safety rules.
No disrespect, and I'm truly sorry that your lady is in/near that situation, but don't load her up with potentially more than she, or anyone else may be able to handle. (edit..... without giving her the best tools to use)
Regards.
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To that end, ^ there's a lot to be said for practicing with your own unloaded firearm. You don't need a class to practice one fluid motion of flicking OFF the safety as the gun is clearing your holster. When it becomes second nature, it doesn't matter what "stress" is involved...you'll execute the exact motions you've trained yourself to default to on "auto pilot" -without even noticing you've done so.
Luckily we are on the same page there. Anyone that has ever approached me about getting a handgun for carry or personal protection, I had the time to cover the basics. I provide some guidance, and suggest places for additional training, but I stress the important things. Carry in a holster, finger off the trigger, etc, I also suggest that they think about the applications of deadly force. the possible consequences of using deadly force, But even with the basic safety rules being "new" the majority of people I have talked to have considered them common sense.
I know a handful of die hard 1911 enthusiasts that will not carry a 1911 without a memory hump, which is unavailable on many other styles of pistols.
I also don't exclude 1911's based on just the safeties, Which I feel are superfluousness.
I consider a lot of factors that help me decide that the 1911 is not a good pistol for concealed carry applications. I consider them overly bulky, large in size and low capacity, they have a reputation of being finicky. I prefer to have lighter, smaller, high capacity pistols, with a reputation for reliability, I prefer sigs, revolvers, glocks, as they lack safeties and are simple to operate, with a much better reputation for reliability ( when compared to a 1911).
I know a handful of die hard 1911 enthusiasts that will not carry a 1911 without a memory hump, which is unavailable on many other styles of pistols.
I also don't exclude 1911's based on just the safeties, Which I feel are superfluousness.
I consider a lot of factors that help me decide that the 1911 is not a good pistol for concealed carry applications. I consider them overly bulky, large in size and low capacity, they have a reputation of being finicky. I prefer to have lighter, smaller, high capacity pistols, with a reputation for reliability, I prefer sigs, revolvers, glocks, as they lack safeties and are simple to operate, with a much better reputation for reliability ( when compared to a 1911).
I'm glad you found what works for you based on decisions formed out of your own opinions for you.
I have also based decisions on my own opinions and found something that works for me. I consider a lot of factors that help me decide that the 1911 is a good pistol for concealed carry applications. I consider them not too bulky, just the right size in my choice of compact models, and just the right capacity given my choice of carrying additional mags, and they have a reputation of being reliable for me.
Jay
Gotta watch us old guys.....cause if you don't....
But how many of them could recite those rules before learning them? After exposure to those "rules", ANYONE would/should consider them common sense.
I am one of those "die hard" 1911 fans. That fact shouldn't matter a whit to you or anyone else. On the other hand, I really could care less what you, or anyone else decides to carry. I'm very comfortable with my 1911's, and if you were born after 1970, I've been carrying a 1911 longer than you've been alive. I just don't agree with telling anyone what they do or don't need and expect it to hold true. It's like me telling you what shoes to buy. Be glad we have a choice. Don't try to make the choice for your girlfriend. Take her shopping, and let her choose. If possible let her shoot it first. Not every new shooter that starts out with a lightweight polymer gun and 15 rounds of 9mm adapts well to the recoil of that gun. With proper techinque, most ANY new shooter will be able to handle most ANY caliber. It all comes back to comfort. If it isn't comfortable in her hands, she won't shoot it enough to become proficient with it. When I hold a class, there are 10/12 different handguns there for folks to try out. Just make sure that the tool she ends up with is one that she's comfortable with, NOT one that she accepts because you're comfortable with it.
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