"Confederate" memorial burned in Chicago

[Dddrees]

You gotta help me out here *** UBC?
Brain isn't working or I don't know what it is

Universal Background Checks.

 

[Trigger Time]

Universal Background Checks.

Ah ok. I don't agree with background checks. Umconstitutional.
If they buy a gun and are a prohibited person then use the law and lock them up. But they never do. Prohibited persons buy guns all the time even with UBC's

 

[Dddrees]

Ah ok. I don't agree with background checks

Understand

I was just referring to the possibility of even discussing the Pros and Cons of even this in a civil fashion. That and the fact that Guns Rights Advocates are so against the words common sense in conjunction with this that they seem at times to spend so much time arguing those words it's impossible to discuss the subject itself.

Anyway I recently had a civil discussion on this forum with a gentleman and I am now rethinking my position. Something's are actualy possible.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Yeah that was my thought when it came to the UBC. So many guns right people just get so upset and attack the words common sense. At least when used in conjunction with the UBC anyway. Doesn't really help when trying to discuss it if you ask me.

The reason for this is that the phrase 'common sense' has been used to poison the well to shut down any actual merit-based discussion of a subject, particularly regarding the 2A that is it treated as the kick in the nuts that it generally has been. In practice it generally means that 'we are going to present an unreasonable demand that doesn't wash constitutionally and then use the magic phrase as we try to make you look like a knuckle-dragging buffoon for refusing to cooperate with our unreasonable demands.' This is the reason that particular phrase generates such ire almost instantaneously.

 

[Dddrees]

The reason for this is that the phrase 'common sense' has been used to poison the well to shut down any actual merit-based discussion of a subject, particularly regarding the 2A that is it treated as the kick in the nuts that it generally has been. In practice it generally means that 'we are going to present an unreasonable demand that doesn't wash constitutionally and then use the magic phrase as we try to make you look like a knuckle-dragging buffoon for refusing to cooperate with our unreasonable demands.' This is the reason that particular phrase generates such ire almost instantaneously.

Yes but in my case at least it just further pushed me away. It is to this day extremely annoying.

 

[Trigger Time]

Understand

I was just referring to the possibility of even discussing the Pros and Cons of even this in a civil fashion. That and the fact that Guns Rights Advocates are so against the words common sense in conjunction with this that they seem at times to spend so much time arguing those words it's impossible to discuss the subject itself.

Anyway I recently had a civil discussion on this forum with a gentleman and I am now rethinking my position. Something's are actualy possible.

Yeah that's good
I'm more inclined to have deep conversations in person than on the internet. It's hard to have a productive back and forth here where you can't sense emotions and meaning.

 

[Trigger Time]

I think the gun rights issues are where I'm pretty much 100% set in my ways.
I believe our 2nd amendment rights have been just trampled an we are just settling for anything.
I take shall not be infringed pretty litteraly as it was written to mean. The government has just **** all over it

 

[Dddrees]

Yeah that's good
I'm more inclined to have deep conversations in person than on the internet. It's hard to have a productive back and forth here where you can't sense emotions and meaning.

100% Agree, it also requires much more work for me as well. I just hate conversing this way. Typing, grammar, spelling, prof reading. I hate all this stuff.

But I always did much prefer looking in someone's eyes. Feedback and all.

 

[Trigger Time]

100% Agree, it also requires much more work for me as well. I just hate conversing this way. Typing, grammar, spelling, prof reading. I hate all this stuff.

But I always did much prefer looking in someone's eyes. Feedback and all.

Yeah I don't even care about grammar and spelling and jazz. It's not gonna happen I just don't care to take the time for it.
In person talking is preferred here too

 

[Dddrees]

I think the gun rights issues are where I'm pretty much 100% set in my ways.
I believe our 2nd amendment rights have been just trampled an we are just settling for anything.
I take shall not be infringed pretty litteraly as it was written to mean. The government has just **** all over it

I get it more now. I just was never invested in the issue. I owned a BB gun as a teenager, spent 20years in the military, but never owned a gun until last fall. I have about 10 pistols, 2 rifles, and a fairly nice pellet rifle. It's an Air Arms Sports Pro. But all these things are for plinking really. I never carried although I went ahead and got my license to carry last year. Mainly so going back and forth to the range wouldn't be an issue. Besides with all the trips back and forth to pickup new guns it seemed like a good idea. I know the amount isn't much for this group but for a previous non-gunna owner I kinda went overboard.

 

[Trigger Time]

I get it more now. I just was never invested in the issue. I owned a BB gun as a teenager, spent 20years in the military, but never owned a gun until last fall. I have about 10 pistols, 2 rifles, and a fairly nice pellet rifle. It's an Air Arms Sports Pro. But all these things are for plinking really. I never carried although I went ahead and got my license to carry last year. Mainly so going back and forth to the range wouldn't be an issue. Besides with all the trips back and forth to pickup new guns it seemed like a good idea. I know the amount isn't much for this group but for a previous non-gunna owner I kinda went overboard.

It's a very good idea just because it's yiur right if nothing else.
They actually fixed that like 2 years ago so you have no issues traveling to the range or gun store to home with pistols now.
Hope constitutional carry will pass first of next year

 

[Dddrees]

Yeah I don't even care about grammar and spelling and jazz. It's not gonna happen I just don't care to take the time for it.
In person talking is preferred here too

i work much better one on one and find meaningful conversations only possible as you learn and grow to know the other person. Mainly the other stuff with people you don't know well tends to be less so. To me that's because you only start to understand someone real well once you know more about them.

 

[Dddrees]

It's a very good idea just because it's yiur right if nothing else.
They actually fixed that like 2 years ago so you have no issues traveling to the range or gun store to home with pistols now.
Hope constitutional carry will pass first of next year

Yeah, but I figured I would be much better off paying the nominal fee to better ensure I had no issues.

 

[Trigger Time]

Yeah, but I figured I would be much better off paying the nominal fee to better ensure I had no issues.

Oh i agree. I'll still have mine for reprocicity with other states. It's the point of it for me. Government doesn't have the authority to manage my rights

 

[Kutnupe14]

How about a statement about "a typical white woman"? And not in a positive context.

I had never heard of that one, and it is completely valid, as it's an ignorant, prejudiced, thing thing to say. I won't defend it, and it's disappointing to learn that he said it. I'll leave it to one's own interpretation as if it is indicative of racism or simply a bias that most of us have displayed some one point in our lives.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Profiling works for police and it works for military. Get over it. I could go up to a cop right now and ask them to show me where the criminals are in their beat. They could point out the worse offenders I'm positive.

If you act like a criminal and put off indicators then I'm gonna treat you as a criminal. That's common ****ing sense. Don't ask me what a criminal looks like. Because you know even if you don't want to admit it and we've been down that road here before. Let the cops do their jobs.

What type of profiling are you referring to? There are different kinds. For instance Israel uses profiling quite effectively from what I understand, they don't go by what country the person is from, what their religion is, or pretty much anything like that. They watch for certain actions and cues. Similar to your sentence of acting like a criminal. But I am going to ask you, what does a criminal look like.

My impressions were based on pieces of the video and audio although I menevr got to see the entire video all together. If the snip it is all that he said and I trust that it is here again he believes there are fine people who are willing to march in the same march as NEO Nazis and WS. The snipet looks better here than it plays I'll give you that. He's trying to force a point that is hard to sell and it seems he's trying harder to sell that than condemn the NEO NAZIS and WS. At the same time he's trying to condemn some of the Anti protesters. Then he further muddles it by bringing up Washington and Jefferson. I guess that wasn't here but he did that too at one point. All things true but he's fighting to many fights at one time. He doesn't pick his battles well because he's always at full out war. Even harder to make this case when he has Alt Right members in his Administration. The three times he spoke out on this and two of those times he drew the ire of some very strong critics. The one and only time was the second time which he seemed to almost take back what he said when he went off script the first time or he was more specific and this helped until he went off script the third time.

But you can't tell me I was the only one that got these impressions.

Foreign leaders and the Pope. Also the Military Chiefs who believed they needed to weigh in and you can't tell me you think that's normal. Heck even Murdocks son who is in charge of Fox came out and condemned Trump.

Where did you see the snippets of video? I can probably guess. Why do you think they showed those specific snippets? Rather then let's say the one where he states that neo nazi's and ws should be condemned totally. And I'm sure you weren't the only one to get those impressions. If you haven't yet, I encourage you to read the transcript with an open mind, at least the parts where he is discussing Charllotesville.

Funny you mention the Pope, you know the person that was an actual Nazi. You do know he was a member of the Hitler's youth right? The statements from the military, were along the same line's as Trump's IMO, we don't want hate. And as for Mourdock's son, as has been stated to you before, he is on the left. He is nothing politically like his father.

The reason for this is that the phrase 'common sense' has been used to poison the well to shut down any actual merit-based discussion of a subject, particularly regarding the 2A that is it treated as the kick in the nuts that it generally has been.

Some of the crap I've heard of as "common sense" is downright ludicrous. I think one of the worst was a 2 firearm per year purchase limit. Or ammo caps, I've heard as low as 100 rds total in possession be proposed.

Another "phase" I hate coming from the left is "compromise" in regards to gun rights.

I had never heard of that one, and it is completely valid, as it's an ignorant, prejudiced, thing thing to say. I won't defend it, and it's disappointing to learn that he said it. I'll leave it to one's own interpretation as if it is indicative of racism or simply a bias that most of us have displayed some one point in our lives.

I was wrong it was "typical white person". He was referring to his grandmother. In a speech he made this statement "I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe."

Two days later he made this comment in an interview.
"The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity – she doesn't. But she is a typical white person, who, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know...there's a reaction that's been bred into our experiences that don't go away and that sometimes come out in the wrong way, and that's just the nature of race in our society"

Here is the audio of the interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abPQ9kZe3ZA

 

[Dddrees]

What type of profiling are you referring to? There are different kinds. For instance Israel uses profiling quite effectively from what I understand, they don't go by what country the person is from, what their religion is, or pretty much anything like that. They watch for certain actions and cues. Similar to your sentence of acting like a criminal. But I am going to ask you, what does a criminal look like.



Where did you see the snippets of video? I can probably guess. Why do you think they showed those specific snippets? Rather then let's say the one where he states that neo nazi's and ws should be condemned totally. And I'm sure you weren't the only one to get those impressions. If you haven't yet, I encourage you to read the transcript with an open mind, at least the parts where he is discussing Charllotesville.

Funny you mention the Pope, you know the person that was an actual Nazi. You do know he was a member of the Hitler's youth right? The statements from the military, were along the same line's as Trump's IMO, we don't want hate. And as for Mourdock's son, as has been stated to you before, he is on the left. He is nothing politically like his father.



Some of the crap I've heard of as "common sense" is downright ludicrous. I think one of the worst was a 2 firearm per year purchase limit. Or ammo caps, I've heard as low as 100 rds total in possession be proposed.

Another "phase" I hate coming from the left is "compromise" in regards to gun rights.



I was wrong it was "typical white person". He was referring to his grandmother. In a speech he made this statement "I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe."

Two days later he made this comment in an interview.
"The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity – she doesn't. But she is a typical white person, who, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know...there's a reaction that's been bred into our experiences that don't go away and that sometimes come out in the wrong way, and that's just the nature of race in our society"

Here is the audio of the interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abPQ9kZe3ZA

I've read your complete thoughts and you make some good points. However when you cherry pick and only choose to single out the pope your discounting the many others of which some are in his own party, Some yes who always critizize him but others who have been amongst his strongest supporters at some point in time. This also discounts the top Military leaders. So even if my bias and sources I get it from have a reason to be so, he's facing an enormous amount of critism this time and it's not just from the typical sources this time.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I've read your complete thoughts and you make some good points. However when you cherry pick and only choose to single out the pope your discounting the many others of which some are in his own party, Some yes who always critizize him but others who have been amongst his strongest supporters at some point in time. This also discounts the top Military leaders. So even if my bias and sources I get it from have a reason to be so, he's facing an enormous amount of critism this time and it's not just from the typical sources this time.

I addressed the military leaders, as I stated their comments were IMO on par with Trump's, I also addressed Mourdock's son, as for a few of the politicians such as McCain they will take any chance they have to take pot shots at Trump whether deserved or not. The same with some of the foreign leaders, their ticked that Trump pointed out that they don't pay their fair share of NATA along with pulling out of the Paris Accord. Not to mention he doesn't kiss their behind's.

The comment about the Pope was mainly tongue in cheek, I believe he is a good man. But he is also a politician along with being a religious leader who has his own agenda.

I forgot to bring this up in my last post, I have no problem with Trump pointing out the idiots on both sides. IMO he was right to do so, I don't see that as picking too many fights. He's addressing both sides of the same "fight".

 

[Dddrees]

I addressed the military leaders, as I stated their comments were IMO on par with Trump's, I also addressed Mourdock's son, as for a few of the politicians such as McCain they will take any chance they have to take pot shots at Trump whether deserved or not. The same with some of the foreign leaders, their ticked that Trump pointed out that they don't pay their fair share of NATA along with pulling out of the Paris Accord. Not to mention he doesn't kiss their behind's.

The comment about the Pope was mainly tongue in cheek, I believe he is a good man. But he is also a politician along with being a religious leader who has his own agenda.

I forgot to bring this up in my last post, I have no problem with Trump pointing out the idiots on both sides. IMO he was right to do so, I don't see that as picking too many fights. He's addressing both sides of the same "fight".

Ah, maybe that was my fault and I apologize.

I know myself I can't help some of my bias because frankly I just can't respect any man who does some of the things he does to begin with and by that I mean ethics and moral character. But even forgetting this he's a lightening rod based on his actions and words alone. He galvanizes people in manner which in my opinion is more harm than good. But on this I know we disagree.

 

[Trigger Time]

A setup? Would it really surprise anyone? Not me. I think events and the reporting of them are manipulated far more often than what we think.
https://www.allenbwest.com/2017/08/19/bombshell-new-evidence-suggests-charlottesville-complete-set/