considering a big switch to 300blk

[Broom_jm]

In supersonic form its a fair bit more potent than the .223 on, umm, thin skinned game. It's like having a 7.62x39 that will actually function in an AR-15.

So, a guy has a 223, 308 and 300BO...which one does he hunt deer and hogs with? Which one does he hunt crows and coyotes with?

What does that leave for the Blackout, other than shooting suppressed?

 

[Woobie]

Well if you're in indiana, you don't hunt deer with the .308. But you can slap that 300 BLK upper on a pistol lower and hunt deer. And there is nothing wrong with it for hogs. Lots of people use them, but that is a trip out of state (hopefully that stays the case). Put your 300 BLK upper back in your SBR'd lower and your home defense carbine is back up and running. I always preferred a shotgun for crows anyway. Coyotes I would use the .223, but then again, a lot of guys in Indiana use shotguns. Don't get me wrong, I love my .308, but being an Indiana resident, it is easily the most impractical firearm I own.

 

[rvb]

ammo costs a lot more, a PITA to reload from cheap (556) brass sources, you're not planning to silence... I don't get it.

the only reason I could see adding 300blk to my collection is to shoot silenced, but long before 300blk came in vogue I built a 9mm for that...

-rvb

 

[ckcollins2003]

Not to bust your chops, CK, but what purpose would you assign the 300BO, outside of suppressed fire, where it will deliver more than a 223 or 308?

I take no offense to it at all man, you're full of great information especially as a reloader and I have always valued your input on everything. For the most part I think we almost always agree.

For the 300 black, I would use it over a .223/5.56 for SHTF any day of the week, also for hunting anything with skin. It just packs a lot more power. I wish I could find a block test video and when I get home from the doc I will search for it, right now I have to leave in 5 minutes, but when a buddy of mine built his 300 black, I wasn't all that impressed at first. It wasn't until we actually tested it on blocks and other various objects that one might find in a firefight that it really impressed me compared to the .223/5.56.

As for comparing it to the .308, man I love the .308 so it's hard for me to bad mouth it, but the ability to keep the same size AR-15 rather than having to look at paying out the butt for an AR-10 while keeping great stopping power for any sized game that you're going to hunt around here is... to me... astounding. I know there are other calibers out there, but the 300 black really is a great cartridge, IMO. Which isn't really worth much to anyone...

On soft targets, the .223 does just fine and the .308 is even more excellent. However, if someone is looking for a rifle round that you are able to easily control for multi-target engagement that is going to pack a lot more punch than say a 9mm, I honestly think the 300 black is the way to go. It all depends on the purpose you are wanting it for... everyone has their reasoning for sticking to their choice of caliber and I respect everyone's choice to use that caliber. But getting tremendous energy output while able to be suppressed the way that this caliber does is to me, awesome.

 

[Woobie]

ammo costs a lot more, a PITA to reload from cheap (556) brass sources, you're not planning to silence... I don't get it.

the only reason I could see adding 300blk to my collection is to shoot silenced, but long before 300blk came in vogue I built a 9mm for that...

-rvb

To each his own. Making 300 BLK really only adds one step to brass prep than I would normally do anyway. There is much more parts commonality than a 9mm upper would have, which might appeal to some. You're right about component prices. The bullets are 2 to 2.5X more expensive. Other than that it's a wash, but it adds up.

I guess what draws some people is that it is basically like owning two guns. Shoot subs and you essentially have a 45 ACP. Shoot supers and you have what amounts to a 7.62 x 39. Just swap mags to go from one to the other. There is the other issue of cycling subs without the suppressor, but that's kinda pointless, IMO anyway.

 

[rvb]

To each his own. Making 300 BLK really only adds one step to brass prep than I would normally do anyway. There is much more parts commonality than a 9mm upper would have, which might appeal to some. You're right about component prices. The bullets are 2 to 2.5X more expensive. Other than that it's a wash, but it adds up.

I guess what draws some people is that it is basically like owning two guns. Shoot subs and you essentially have a 45 ACP. Shoot supers and you have what amounts to a 7.62 x 39. Just swap mags to go from one to the other. There is the other issue of cycling subs without the suppressor, but that's kinda pointless, IMO anyway.

Subs for a can are the best argument for 300blk... 2 in one as you say. but OP says not planning a can, so does it make sense to pay 2x or more for ammo just to switch from 223 to "7.62x39-like?" People used to build 7.62x39 guns to take advantage of cheap ammo.

someday I might throw a 300blk barrel on a gun just to play, but I've yet to have that feeling something is missing....

even in regards to the silencer, I'm very happy shooting full power 223 through one. I don't need it to be pistol quiet, I just like not having to always need ear pro. for pistol quiet, I grab the pistol (or pistol cal AR)...

2c

-rvb

edit: now see in some later posts OP may get a can, so then maybe for him it makes more sense...
-rvb

 

[Woobie]

Subs for a can are the best argument for 300blk... 2 in one as you say. but OP says not planning a can, so does it make sense to pay 2x or more for ammo just to switch from 223 to "7.62x39-like?" People used to build 7.62x39 guns to take advantage of cheap ammo.

someday I might throw a 300blk barrel on a gun just to play, but I've yet to have that feeling something is missing....

even in regards to the silencer, I'm very happy shooting full power 223 through one. I don't need it to be pistol quiet, I just like not having to always need ear pro. for pistol quiet, I grab the pistol (or pistol cal AR)...

2c

-rvb

edit: now see in some later posts OP may get a can, so then maybe for him it makes more sense...
-rvb

When we're talking about adding another toy, like buying a new barrel, for instance, it's all a matter of what tickles your fancy. But as you are pointing out, switching away from such a common as useful caliber to go with something else, the decision requires good answers to the questions/concerns you guys raise to justify the change. Some people may not be able to get satisfactory answers to warrant switching to 300 BLK. Others may.

To be my own devil's advocate, something that really speaks for the .223 / 5.56 is the heavier bullets and the faster twists available to stabilize them. A lot of what has plagued the cartridge for self defense purposes has been the bullets conventionally used. M193 is a horrible round, and M855 is worse. Most of what is left are varmint bullets with insufficient penetration. But the 75 and 77 grain bullets perform much better. The mk262 stuff is really nice. So is 75 gn TAP. And for us reloaders these bullets and others are all available to roll out own. You can get a very lethal round that is still in the 2300 fps neighborhood out of a 11.5" sbr, and will really fly out of a 16-18" barrel. The 77 TMK, for instance has a BC of .420. That's pretty good. Anyway, I gotta get to work, but there is a lot to be said for going this direction as well.

 

[romack991]

Guns are supposed to go "BANG!"...and a 50 cent pair of ear plugs is all it takes to protect your hearing. If you shoot a lot, add a good set of muffs. Spending hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, just so you can skip the plugs/muffs, is penny wise and pound foolish.

Guns are meant to fire a projectile at high velocities. The "BANG!" created is an undesired output.
Plugs and muffs only help the shooter and their guests. Plus they get to be a pain in the ass. Suppressors help when you want to be considerate of nearby neighbors, especially when shooting near dawn or dusk. Just because you don't have an interest doesn't mean it's foolish. If you have the disposable income for it, it's a hell of a lot nicer way of shooting.

ammo costs a lot more, a PITA to reload from cheap (556) brass sources, you're not planning to silence... I don't get it.

the only reason I could see adding 300blk to my collection is to shoot silenced, but long before 300blk came in vogue I built a 9mm for that...

-rvb

Suppressed 300blk is pretty dang quiet but I shoot my 223 more though the can just due to cost and personal preference. After the fact, I wish I bought a 9mm suppressor because I would put a lot more rounds down range with it.


To the OP, if I would of had to sell my 223 and 308 platforms to get a 300blk, personally I would be disappointed. It's a fun, versatile cartridge but I consider it more of an add-on than a replacement.

 

[Dog1]

ammo costs a lot more, a PITA to reload from cheap (556) brass sources, you're not planning to silence... I don't get it.

the only reason I could see adding 300blk to my collection is to shoot silenced, but long before 300blk came in vogue I built a 9mm for that...

-rvb

It's not a PITA. It's no different than reloading .223/5.56 or any other rifle caliber. I can crank out a couple hundred rounds in the same time it takes me to do any other caliber.

My 8.2 inch 300 SBR is my favorite rifle. I shoot it more than my 7.2 or 12.5 SBRs. Suppressed it's stupid quiet for a center fire 30 cal gun.

To the poster that says it's foolish to own a suppressor, don't knock it until you have spent some time with a suppressed rifle.

 

[rvb]

It's not a PITA. It's no different than reloading .223/5.56 or any other rifle caliber. I can crank out a couple hundred rounds in the same time it takes me to do any other caliber.

My 8.2 inch 300 SBR is my favorite rifle. I shoot it more than my 7.2 or 12.5 SBRs. Suppressed it's stupid quiet for a center fire 30 cal gun.

To the poster that says it's foolish to own a suppressor, don't knock it until you have spent some time with a suppressed rifle.

if starting w 300blk brass or already cut 223 brass, sure. but initial cutting/trimming has to involve some work, no?
I've got buckets of 223 brass, I couldn't imagine the $ to buy 300blk brass....
-rvb

 

[rvb]

Just because you don't have an interest doesn't mean it's foolish. If you have the disposable income for it, it's a hell of a lot nicer way of shooting.

To the poster that says it's foolish to own a suppressor, don't knock it until you have spent some time with a suppressed rifle.

yea, silencers are awesome.
If not for the regulations, they wouldn't be expensive.
It's especially nice when you have group of folks or are trying to teach new folks or kids to not have to yell over ear pro...
my wife refused to shoot the ARs until I put a can on. The concussion bothered her.
shooting steel w/ a silenced gun is just a hoot

-rvb

 

[Dog1]

if starting w 300blk brass or already cut 223 brass, sure. but initial cutting/trimming has to involve some work, no?
I've got buckets of 223 brass, I couldn't imagine the $ to buy 300blk brass....
-rvb

Actually it's not that bad cutting and forming new brass for 300 blackout. I don't mind it but then again I like working with my hands.

If you like getting right down to business buying it already ready to go is still not that bad. The prices have really come down on ready-made 300 blackout brass.

 

[rvb]

ok, I concede cutting down 223 brass isn't that bad. haven't actually done it so have no personal experience.

but to me it's an extra step and I am not one of the guys who "enjoys" reloading so to me extra steps suck...
(buying new brass defeats the main reason I tolerate reloading, which is to save $....)

-rvb

 

[Bfish]

I was about to cut down my own brass and I ended up buying brass. I got 1,000 pieces of Lake City for $100 shipped already trimmed, sized, and swaged... Couldn't beat that IMO however, I kind of wish I'd just have bought the dillon motor upfront with a buddy and been done with it! However, you still have to come off the 223 brass in addition and when I started thinking that way it just didn't seem worth it as this point in time...
Considering how many loadings people are getting out of the 300blk brass I am more concerned about loosing it than anything else!

 

[Dog1]

ok, I concede cutting down 223 brass isn't that bad. haven't actually done it so have no personal experience.

but to me it's an extra step and I am not one of the guys who "enjoys" reloading so to me extra steps suck...
(buying new brass defeats the main reason I tolerate reloading, which is to save $....)

-rvb

I understand that. I'm a tinkerer and I like things that take time and allow me to use my hands.

I'm a plastic model builder, so I don't mind tedious things.

 

[rvb]

The enjoyment received from working with my hands and tinkering is overshadowed by my disdain for mindless repetitive tasks....

-rvb

 

[Sniper 79]

The enjoyment received from working with my hands and tinkering is overshadowed by my disdain for mindless repetitive tasks....

-rvb

Same here. If I don't have something to tinker with I am not happy.

Got to make sure I am saving for retirement because I am going to be busy!

 

[451_Detonics]

ok, I concede cutting down 223 brass isn't that bad. haven't actually done it so have no personal experience.

but to me it's an extra step and I am not one of the guys who "enjoys" reloading so to me extra steps suck...
(buying new brass defeats the main reason I tolerate reloading, which is to save $....)

-rvb

love my 300 Whisper...no cutting involved, just neck 221 Fireball brass up to 30 caliber and trim like I do all rifle brass...no fuss, no muss

 

[Gluemanz28]

Somebody needs to tell by buddys 11 year old son that the Ruger American Rifle in 300 BO isn't good for Big Game, because he didn't know any better and shot a big deer last week in OK. The deer went about 20 yards before it fell over dead. When it was field dressed it was shot in the heart and was nearly in two pieces.



My advice to the OP is do what ever you feel will be used the most by you and ignore the 300 BO haters.

 

[Broom_jm]

Back in the day, my family was dirt poor and my dad used a 22WMR to harvest 11 deer over two winters. That doesn't make it a good choice for a big game cartridge.

Props to your buddy's son for taking a nice buck, but how about we hear some of the details? What was the exact load used? What was the distance at which the shot was taken?

Nobody is saying the 300 BO isn't capable of killing big game, at modest ranges, but by modern standards, it's anemic...that's just a fact.