Constitutional Carry bill filed in Indiana

[jamil]

Recapturing the pop culture will be the cure for many things. I don't know how that gets done but I'm convinced that's the what needs to be done.

I don't know how that gets done in the world we have today. I read 1984 in high school. I just added it on Kindle the other day just because I hear so many comparisons to today's world and I just don't remember much from the book. Whoever put that meme in the sad but true thread that said something like "1984 was supposed to be a warning; not a blueprint" was spot on.

It took 70+ years to get to this point. I used to think that the way to get it back is the same way it was taken. The hand that rocks the cradle... Get liberty leaning conservatives on school boards, in the unions, teaching classes from K-12 through grad school. Get conservatives on boards of directors, elected to public offices, appointed as judges.

I no longer think that's possible. It requires a level of pragmatism and end-justifies-means willingness that is beyond the principles of most conservatives. Now I think the only way is to win the argument in the minds of most people. And if that is possible at all it is only because the internet is still mostly uncensored.

For example, when Obama marginalizes "climate change deniers" who is there to rebut the claim? Sarah Palin and Sean Hanity aren't particularly effective representatives. We need a conservatarian voice of reason who can knock down the straw men.

 

[bwframe]

...We need a conservatarian voice of reason who can knock down the straw men.

Do those two terms really go together?

 

[jamil]

Do those two terms really go together?

Sure. I think it refers to libertarian leaning fiscal conservatives. In other words, libertarians who aren't heading towards the ideological cliff.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

We need a conservatarian voice of reason who can knock down the straw men.

Those guys and gals are out there, (to varying degrees). But they are the kooks and right-wing fringe. They are the loud, boisterous, self centered, blow hands, bigots, hate-filled, climate change deniers, islamophobic, homophobic, xenophobic and all the other adjectives and adverbs the culture can affix to them. Waiting for that voice in the wilderness to come and save us isn't going to happen, I don't think. The election of "the one" candidate will not instantly cause everyone to awaken to constitutionally constrained governance. It's something to ponder. But I don't think a celebrity/populist or political messiah is in the works.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Sadly, you are correct.

When I had the whole "minimum wage is bad" thing explained to me, back when I was of a liberal mindset, the gentleman with whom I was talking explained that presently, we are here (makes mark on dry-wipe board in the room) Here is where there's a bunch of handouts of the People's money to people who do nothing to earn it, but want the entitlements.

We need to be here (makes mark about three feet to my right of the first mark) Here is where people are self-sufficient and take care of themselves because they are proud to do so.

The bad part is that in here (indicates the area between the marks) is going to suck for a lot of people.

He cited a stat that I can't confirm because I don't know the source, but essentially, if we were to, as a country, on Jan. 1, give $10000 to every American man, woman, and child, with the stipulation that that is the only gov't aid that will be received that year, we would both spend less money and also eliminate poverty, as every American would have made enough money to be above the poverty line.

His example of the time period in the middle "sucking" was that some people would take the $10K and have it spent by the end of January, and then, come Feb. 1, would be without a home, food, or much of anything, except perhaps a positive urine drug test or a nice, widescreen TV. Those people would likely be dead by March 1. Programs that have built-in death rates are just non-starters.

I'm not sure how to overcome that. They started with programs that gave people free stuff and positive self-esteem rather than making them want to earn stuff and deserve self-respect for positive action. People were allowed to forget that it is only in the dictionary that success precedes work.

Blessings,
Bill

Those guys and gals are out there, (to varying degrees). But they are the kooks and right-wing fringe. They are the loud, boisterous, self centered, blow hands, bigots, hate-filled, climate change deniers, islamophobic, homophobic, xenophobic and all the other adjectives and adverbs the culture can affix to them. Waiting for that voice in the wilderness to come and save us isn't going to happen, I don't think. The election of "the one" candidate will not instantly cause everyone to awaken to constitutionally constrained governance. It's something to ponder. But I don't think a celebrity/populist or political messiah is in the works.

 

[SteveM4A1]

So how do we convince Bosma (I assume the Speaker appoints the committees?) that Rep. Lucas should be the Public Policy Committee Chairman next year?

 

[brotherbill3]

Google says...

First on the list is the Indiana subsidiary of the NRA which does so much that I hadn't even heard of it.

ISRPA

Second on the list is *drumroll* INGO!

Nothing else, other than a link to NRA-ILA even qualifies as an 'organization'.

we're more of advocacy page/group - and since we're 100% volunteer, w no funding - IMAGC did what what we could. ... and we'll continue.

 

[brotherbill3]

I didn't get read much of the last 3 or 4 pages ... all posted after the bills are dead; with a handful of new faces in the discussion ...

Getting sick and spending a 3 day vaca "cooty north" for didn't help my efforts (nor did our other main IMAGC staffer's getting gall stone surgery).

We can work to get people involved - or hide in our shells and under our rocks until they come for us.
Some of the bills are done.

How about we add some of the good parts to the Senate Bills that make it to the house - provided they get hearings?
How about the Senate adds to the 1 house bill that got passed ?

Session isn't over. I don't quit; but I am busy; and not 100% yet. ... suck it up buttercup.

 

[IndyDave1776]

we're more of advocacy page/group - and since we're 100% volunteer, w no funding - IMAGC did what what we could. ... and we'll continue.

Could you expand on this? I really don't like being this jaded, I just don't see a lot of alternatives and would like to hear more if there is some potential out there.

 

[brotherbill3]

Could you expand on this? I really don't like being this jaded, I just don't see a lot of alternatives and would like to hear more if there is some potential out there.

Indiana Moms Against Gun Control (IMAGC for short) - mostly operate via FB; but we do have a web page, and I try to keep updated on legislative things here and on the other forum ...

Indiana Moms Against Gun Control or on facebook (I believe you, like many, do not use that venue; no worries.) Group founded after a GRAA march/countermarch in Jan 2013 vs. "moms Demand..."
when the originators didn't show ... Mrs.Porter, Mrs.G, IJW (Primary ladies at founding) plus husbands and a few others of us (my wife and I were at the rally) and then founded.

We've attracted and gotten a few st. legislators to follow us; (thanks by Mr. Lucas a couple yrs ago as intrumental in a bill or 2 passing).
We've done petitions, other rally's of our own (none recently), provide reviews of State (and Fed as allowed) legislation - our voice is best at state level.
We've met w/ Coats, Donnelly, A few federal and state legislators. we provide sample letters on legislation, links for people to share; send.

But it is a total grass roots effort; and keeping people involved and participating is hard.
"Moms" was just a name du-jour as the ladies that founded were in such consternation over the "MDA" group ...
All are welcome - we're about 50-50 men / women in followers on FB.

We've been slowed by "staff" having Job changes, health issues, and the difficulty in reaching people due to limits of FB and even the web page.
(where it is 'better' to share but takes a bit more effort to make posts and set them up).

The goal is not reach "others" - not just - "the choir" - IE> strong gun rights advocates need to be active, but we need to change the middle.
I see the same names - for and against - on comments on line - in media posts and such on 2A related rights / articles.

IF we cannot get the fudds of their collective butts; and get ourselves motivated - AND REACH THOSE who support (or would support) us but aren't committed "enthusiasts" (INGO-ers)
we are doomed. We must be bringing in new people to the cause.

Hence the use of FB (and Twitter actually though less so.)
Twitter doesn't allow sharing sufficient info - I relate it to shouting in room full of shouting people.

We've been slowed, but we're not "out". and anyone willing to actually help write, send, provide real, factual info would be a help.
it is a thankless effort though, in many ways. ... just like providing reviews of bills here and other forums ...

It's just easier to complain than to act. (sense my frustration?) and
I don't persist for MY rights, but for my KIDS and GRANDSONS.
we Need to provide a proper example, and show the effort that we are to apply; plus do all we can for them. ... so they can for their future progeny.

 

[John Galt]

I've heard that Moms Demand Action has a table set up at the Statehouse today handing out propaganda.
What are "we" doing ...

 

[IndyDave1776]

Thanks!

 

[IndyDave1776]

I've heard that Moms Demand Action has a table set up at the Statehouse today handing out propaganda.
What are "we" doing ...

Not a hell of a lot for the most part. This is the focal point of my questions: what can we do? We lose when it comes to throwing money at the problem. We simply don't have enough of it available. I have been reminded that the worst of the problem people are in safe seats such that the only way to inflict punishment at the voting booth is to give our illustrious legislative leadership four years of Captain Mustache which may or may not get their attention and most certainly won't help in a number of other ways. We don't have an emotional plea unlike the Moms who need some action who can invoke slaughtering children and armed bogeymen hiding in the bushes. I am not trying to argue that it can't be done, but it is not going to be easy and will require being creative.

One idea that I have been considering is reaching those outside of our loop in inventive ways. Since the media and the education system falls squarely in the other camp, I was led to wonder how expensive it is to rent one of those kiosks in the corridor at a shopping mall. It would offer good access to a wide cross-section of people and not be subject to any official harassment, unlike, say, trying to operate in a park or on a sidewalk. I would also wonder how the mommies got set up at the statehouse, what requirements there may be, and how much opportunity exists for official harassment.

My biggest concern is not just doing something but doing something effective. First and foremost, this would include not throwing money in the name of addressing the problem without accomplishment to go with it.

 

[brotherbill3]

Not a hell of a lot for the most part. This is the focal point of my questions: what can we do? We lose when it comes to throwing money at the problem. We simply don't have enough of it available. I have been reminded that the worst of the problem people are in safe seats such that the only way to inflict punishment at the voting booth is to give our illustrious legislative leadership four years of Captain Mustache which may or may not get their attention and most certainly won't help in a number of other ways. We don't have an emotional plea unlike the Moms who need some action who can invoke slaughtering children and armed bogeymen hiding in the bushes. I am not trying to argue that it can't be done, but it is not going to be easy and will require being creative.

One idea that I have been considering is reaching those outside of our loop in inventive ways. Since the media and the education system falls squarely in the other camp, I was led to wonder how expensive it is to rent one of those kiosks in the corridor at a shopping mall. It would offer good access to a wide cross-section of people and not be subject to any official harassment, unlike, say, trying to operate in a park or on a sidewalk. I would also wonder how the mommies got set up at the statehouse, what requirements there may be, and how much opportunity exists for official harassment.

My biggest concern is not just doing something but doing something effective. First and foremost, this would include not throwing money in the name of addressing the problem without accomplishment to go with it.

How about a rally on weekday - NOT a friday - but rather when the legislation is in session. This is the ONE difference between IMAGC's early "success in helping" get stuff passed and getting shut out.
It is harder as I've noted since our founders are sidelined w/ life issues. (new kids, health issues, work issues) -

Show them some numbers - people willing to stand up ? I wasn't involved in arranging the prior one's - so I need to investigate the steps needed to make it happen.
anyone w/ familiarity - feel free to message me

 

[stephen87]

If you were able to give me at least a month's notice, since I make my schedule a month out, and make sure it's during the week sans Wednesday, I would be more than willing to put some time in. Meet some INGOers, spread our message, and meet some reps to put a bug or three in an ear.

 

[Borock]

All good ideas. Also, the easiest to carry out and probably most effective would be to contact your elected officials (from federal to local) to see where they stand and on what they've voted then tell them how you feel about the issues. They all want to be re-elected and I would think eager to listen and assess any input we have to give them.

Federal-https://www.opencongress.org/people/zipcodelookup State-https://iga.in.gov/legislative/find-legislators/

 

[IndyDave1776]

All good ideas. Also, the easiest to carry out and probably most effective would be to contact your elected officials (from federal to local) to see where they stand and on what they've voted then tell them how you feel about the issues. They all want to be re-elected and I would think eager to listen and assess any input we have to give them.

Federal-https://www.opencongress.org/people/zipcodelookup State-https://iga.in.gov/legislative/find-legislators/

You're late to the party. We started here. They essentially told us to f**k off.

 

[brotherbill3]

You're late to the party. We started here. They essentially told us to f**k off.

which is why we need as many of us as we can - to show up en mass on short notice - when the few Firearms bills are heard at committee and get 2nd and 3rd readings. ...

1. Mailbox - didn't work this time. perhaps not enough support from boxes 2 and 3 ...
2. soap box - that's speak out in public - at rally / state capitol / etc.
3. Ballot box - spring / fall ... soon.

hopefully we get this done w/o using the last 2 boxes.

 

[Trigger Time]

which is why we need as many of us as we can - to show up en mass on short notice - when the few Firearms bills are heard at committee and get 2nd and 3rd readings. ...

1. Mailbox - didn't work this time. perhaps not enough support from boxes 2 and 3 ...
2. soap box - that's speak out in public - at rally / state capitol / etc.
3. Ballot box - spring / fall ... soon.

hopefully we get this done w/o using the last 2 boxes.

when and where do I show up?

 

[JS1911]

What kind of open carry protest is being organized? I heard a bit of Guy Relford last evening, and he said that the guys carrying AKs and AR-15s in the low ready position are not helping those of us who want Constitutional Carry for handguns. I agree on this point. However, there should be an open carry protest of handgun owners in front of the statehouse, and city county building. I just need to know when and where, even if I have to join in on my way home from work.