Cop orders man to put legal OC gun on ground. Kills him when he tries to comply.

[Spear Dane]

I am already tired of seeing this biased agenda bull**** repeated. The gun was NOT being legally carried by a normal person behaving normally. There were multiple 911 calls reporting that this guy went into the Burger King and pointed a gun at the staff, then went outside and pointed it at other people in the parking lot. The "legally carried" factoid was an assumption based on NC's status as an open carry permitless state. These inconvenient facts are, of course, made to disappear by the race-baiters who are trying to make it look like the cops rolled up and shot someone for no reason. They arrived to a dangerous man with a gun call to find a...dangerous, non-compliant man with a gun.

Sucks that this happened to him, but as usual there is a list of things he could have done to avoid being shot that is as long as my leg. Don't wave guns at Burger King and get the cops called on you. Don't ignore the police as though they're gonna go away. Don't deliberately conceal your hands. Don't draw a firearm on the police.

I kinda wonder if, due to him hiding his hand, the police thought the gun was already in his hand and therefore available to be dropped. So when he started messing with it, that appears as a weapon manipulation of some kind, indicating that he's getting ready to fire on them. What could have avoided the whole thing? Standing up straight and raising his hands. Perhaps using his words. Maybe acting in a manner that looks like anything other than a crazy person with a gun who is psyching himself up to shoot some cops.

There's possibly room for improvement in the police response here, but let's not lose sight of who is responsible for this entire situation coming to pass in the first place. I think you will find that if you don't point guns at people in the Burger King and then act shifty with police, your chances of ending the day with bullet wounds go way down.

Did you happen to notice the guy was black? And this is in Charlotte, NC? And maybe, just maybe, he was pissing himself in fear, unsure what to do and generally just afraid of being shot while black, which is exactly what happened. She effed up, hugely. Why do you think the PD did it's level best to suppress the video? Neither one of those cops shut up long enough for him to try and communicate. Why screaming at people is even taught I have no idea, all it does is make already tense situations much worse.

 

[fullmetaljesus]

Did you happen to notice the guy was black? And this is in Charlotte, NC? And maybe, just maybe, he was pissing himself in fear, unsure what to do and generally just afraid of being shot while black, which is exactly what happened. She effed up, hugely. Why do you think the PD did it's level best to suppress the video? Neither one of those cops shut up long enough for him to try and communicate. Why screaming at people is even taught I have no idea, all it does is make already tense situations much worse.

Are you suggesting that if a white guy, did what was described, the police wouldn't have shot him?

 

[Indyal]

I can’t find the link now but supposedly there is 9 minutes of body cam video, not just the start where she has her gun drawn. The prelude may provide some clarity

 

[Clay Pigeon]

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/latest-news/article229265749.html

 

[ditcherman]

If that guy is compliant I have a lot of practicing to do before the next time I'm stopped, as far as how far I can push a cop before I get shot.
I counted him being told to drop it 23 times in about 30 seconds in the longer video.
I don't think she was yelling, I think she was speaking be heard and overdriving the sucky mic.
All he had to do was show his hands and he didn't.
BUT - why in the world would the sheriffs office give the appearance they are trying to hide something? Because it sure looks like they are hiding something by not giving the judge that asked for video the whole thing.
Someone needs more facts here, but what we can take away is we need to think ahead on how we'll handle a confrontation when being given orders. Our life might depend on it.

 

[Ark]

Did you happen to notice the guy was black? And this is in Charlotte, NC? And maybe, just maybe, he was pissing himself in fear, unsure what to do and generally just afraid of being shot while black, which is exactly what happened. She effed up, hugely. Why do you think the PD did it's level best to suppress the video? Neither one of those cops shut up long enough for him to try and communicate. Why screaming at people is even taught I have no idea, all it does is make already tense situations much worse.

I mean, it's kind of racist to assert that black people are so lacking in basic maturity and self control that they **** themselves and turn into uncontrolled puddles of terror at the sight of a police officer. Are they just lesser humans who are incapable of agency or responsibility for their actions?

 

[chipbennett]

NC is an open carry, no permit required state. There's nothing to imply he was doing anything wrong.

Killed for following directions, would also likely have been killed if he disobeyed. It’s like premeditated murder in a way. Cop just walks up to him and kills him; knowing full well she has full control of the situation.

NC is also in the circuit that issued US v Black. To wit:

Third, it is undisputed that under the laws of North Carolina, which permit its residents to openly carry firearms . . . Troupe’s gun was legally possessed and displayed. The Government contends that because other laws prevent convicted felons from possessing guns, the officers could not know whether Troupe was lawfully in possession of the gun until they performed a records check. . . . We are not persuaded. Being a felon in possession of a firearm is not the default status. More importantly, where a state permits individuals to openly carry firearms, the exercise of this right, without more, cannot justify an investigatory detention. Permitting such a justification would eviscerate Fourth Amendment protections for lawfully armed individuals in those states.

 

[Notropis]

Assuming this guy was brandishing a weapon in and out of the business and assuming the firearm was in his hand....why not drop it immediately ? Or if in holster, why not stand up with hands high while verbally agreeing to comply with the lawful order? As far as ordering to drop the weapon, if in hand, fine but it did appear has was reluctantly complying or perhaps contemplating murdering all the cops??? If in holster that was a bad command plain and simple. I hate these situations where we have only so much information and both parties don't get it right. But I think people need to taught in school about complying with lawful orders. Some consideration to this would reduce this nonsense quite a bit.

 

[chipbennett]

A bit more context:

https://www.wfae.org/post/what-we-know-about-shooting-danquirs-franklin#stream/0

Possibly relevant to officer's state of mind during the encounter:

CMPD says that 911 calls were received at 9 and 9:01 a.m. The first caller said a person entered the Burger King, walked behind the counter with a gun, and pointed it at an employee. The second caller said a person approached her vehicle in the parking lot and "looked like he was pulling out a gun" but added that she didn't see it.


Kerl and another officer, Larry Deal, were dispatched at 9:02 a.m. to a call of an assault with a deadly weapon with no injury.

A description of the individual was given to both officers over the radio and in addition, CMPD’s Real Time Crime Center was monitoring the call and directed the officers over the radio to his exact location. Body-cam video shows they arrived at the same time, with Deal's vehicle in front of Kerl's.

As well as how the encounter unfolded:

They observed Franklin squatting next to an open front passenger door of a vehicle with a man in the passenger seat. The vehicle was parked outside of the main entrance of the Burger King.


The footage shows Franklin with his left hand between his legs. He is told at least 24 times by both officers to drop his weapon. Franklin then moves his right hand and it appears that he is holding a gun with the butt facing the man and the barrel facing himself.

So, justified? Not justified? Who knows. But, clearly not a case of "officer shoots man for lawfully open-carrying a firearm". (By definition, a lawfully carried firearm, whether open or concealed, is holstered.)

 

[chipbennett]

I'll also add that it took all of 30 seconds of Googling to find the actual context for this incident. I'm glad to see that the INGO commentariat yet again engaged in no such frivolous waste of time before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Sigblitz]

And then hang that heifer. Talk about egregious fubar.

Yeah I saw that coming. She did tell him to drop the gun. He had to reach for the gun to comply, putting it in his hand. I have family at work right now in the police department and the sheriff's department. I'm not picking sides. If that was someone in my family, I would ask what could she have done differently to keep her safe and avoid the need to use force, which is always scrutinized.

 

[Sigblitz]

Example. My sister's husband tazed someone he could have justifiably shot. It was downtown during black expo. Imagine a white cop shooting a black man during black expo. His decision kept him safe and out of the eyes of national scrutiny. It's not an easy job.

 

[JettaKnight]

I do agree it looked like he was complying.

It looked to me like he was in his own little world.

Not sure what lead up to this, but why was he squatting? Why he starring into the car? Did he say anything? Why does dropping the gun need two hands?


Why did she feel the need to fire right then? I don't know, but this looks fishy all around.

Are you suggesting that if a white guy, did what was described, the police wouldn't have shot him?

It doesn't help to pretend that (sub)conscious bias doesn't exist. It's at least a potential factor that shouldn't be quickly ruled out. But of course, it's near impossible to prove exist on a micro level.

 

[JettaKnight]

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/latest-news/article229265749.html

Ouch. From that, he's clearly complying... what is that, an LCP?


But, from her view in real time... yeah, no... still thinking bad shoot.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

The "legally carried" factoid was an assumption based on NC's status as an open carry permitless state. These inconvenient facts are, of course, made to disappear by the race-baiters

Point of order - You are the first person in this thread to bring up race. No post before yours mentioned the race of the man.

Regardless of his race, I would hope the cops would behave in a safe and reasonable manner when starting the encounter.

 

[2A_Tom]

Maybe, it would be better procedure to teach police to instruct suspects to raise their hands like in the old movies.

I have just, since this thread started, begun to develop a new mindset.

When confronted by an arresty cop:

Cop, "Drop your gun!"

Me, "I am raising my hands and placing them on mu head."

Cop, "Drop your gun!"

Me, "I am kneeling down and turning my back to you with my hands on my head."

Cop, "Drop your gun!"

Me, "I am crossing my feet while kneeling with my back to you and my hands on my head."

Cop, "I shot him because he was resisting arrest and not complying with my commands. Body cams? We don't need no stinkin' body cams!"

 

[chipbennett]

Just to reiterate (link to source in previous post):

Claim:

So, a man legally carrying outside of restaurant...

Reality:

CMPD says that 911 calls were received at 9 and 9:01 a.m. The first caller said a person entered the Burger King, walked behind the counter with a gun, and pointed it at an employee. The second caller said a person approached her vehicle in the parking lot and "looked like he was pulling out a gun" but added that she didn't see it.

Kerl and another officer, Larry Deal, were dispatched at 9:02 a.m. to a call of an assault with a deadly weapon with no injury.

Conclusion: he was not carrying his firearm lawfully. RAS existed that he was handling his firearm in a manner that constituted armed assault (i.e. unholstering it and pointing it at people).

Claim:

...was stopped by police and told to put his gun on the ground, so he reaches towards his holster to get the gun and comply with their orders only to be shot dead for reaching for a weapon.

Reality:

They observed Franklin squatting next to an open front passenger door of a vehicle with a man in the passenger seat. The vehicle was parked outside of the main entrance of the Burger King.

The footage shows Franklin with his left hand between his legs. He is told at least 24 times by both officers to drop his weapon. Franklin then moves his right hand and it appears that he is holding a gun with the butt facing the man and the barrel facing himself.

Conclusion: the firearm was not holstered; it was in his hand. He was told repeatedly (24 times), without verbal or non-verbal response, to drop the weapon that was not holstered, but in his hand. Instead of dropping the weapon, he reached for it with his other hand.

Above is based on the released, full body cam video footage.

Never let facts get in the way of a good two-minute hate.

 

[JettaKnight]

Maybe, it would be better procedure to teach police to instruct suspects to raise their hands like in the old movies.

I have just, since this thread started, begun to develop a new mindset.

When confronted by an arresty cop:

Cop, "Drop your gun!"

Me, "I am raising my hands and placing them on mu head."

Cop, "Drop your gun!"

Me, "I am kneeling down and turning my back to you with my hands on my head."

Cop, "Drop your gun!"

Me, "I am crossing my feet while kneeling with my back to you and my hands on my head."

Cop, "I shot him because he was resisting arrest and not complying with my commands. Body cams? We don't need no stinkin' body cams!"

I get that - yelling "drop the gun!" over and over probably not the best, but if two cops are yelling drop the gun, do it.

At least in your example you,d be doing something. Danquirs did nothing but wisecrack, "I heard you the first time."

 

[JettaKnight]

You know, I was thinking about you on the way to work today, Chip. "Gee, it's been a bit since Chip's been around; always has a way words, that Chip."


My unanswered question is: "what's going on with the guy in the car?" who is he, why is Danquirs squating there, what did he order at BK? Is the officer concerned about his safety as well as hers?

And where's this holster GPIA7R? All I see is a pocket gun that appears to come from the pocket of his fleece.


Now, where's T.Lex been?

 

[chipbennett]

You know, I was thinking about you on the way to work today, Chip. "Gee, it's been a bit since Chip's been around; always has a way words, that Chip."


My unanswered question is: "what's going on with the guy in the car?" who is he, why is Danquirs squating there, what did he order at BK? Is the officer concerned about his safety as well as hers?

And where's this holster GPIA7R? All I see is a pocket gun that appears to come from the pocket of his fleece.


Now, where's T.Lex been?

Relevant question. All the officers (there were two) know is that they have been sent to respond to reports of armed assault, by the person in the location and matching the description of Danquirs - a person who appears to be holding a firearm, and not responding to/complying with their orders.