Coronovirus IV

[CountryBoy1981]

And if you actually believe those numbers in light of all the twisting of the stats then so be it. I do not.

If they tied the funding and payments for medical services at a lower amount than what it is for the flu I wonder what the numbers would be?

 

[chipbennett]

Need to ask the "anti-maskers" why surgical teams wear masks if it isn't for their own protection!

Is this a serious question?

Gowning (including surgical masks) is to protect the patient from the surgical team, not the other way around.

 

[chipbennett]

People that want an easy way to open their garage doors.

Maybe they're adding mechanization so that they don't get accused of having nooses hanging off their manual garage doors?

 

[chipbennett]

Well, remind me when the last pandemic was that killed a hundred thousand Americans in 3 months.

To your point, those of us that followed the ebola situation a few years ago found out who Fauci was back then. He didn't seem problematic at that time. But, sure, maybe he was replaced with a cyborg in the interim.

Almost 50% of those deaths were directly attributable to policies that forced carriers into nursing homes. That is policy, not pandemic. Of the remaining deaths, the numbers were inflated anywhere from 10-30% through... creative cause-of-death determinations.

I'm of the speculative mindset that SARS2 is roughly equivalent to SARS1, at this point.

 

[T.Lex]

At the risk of appearing difficult, that description does not represent a single person I have interacted with in the last 4 months. This includes work, church, family, trips to the store and the folks I see on INGO.

In that list of interactions, for me, there are at least 2 people who fit the "covid-denier" label.

Of the remaining deaths, the numbers were inflated anywhere from 10-30% through... creative cause-of-death determinations.

Ok, chip, where do you get that, other than making it up?

How do we quantify how often docs fail to follow the CDC methodology for attributing cause of death?

 

[foszoe]

Is this a serious question?

Gowning (including surgical masks) is to protect the patient from the surgical team, not the other way around.

But if its elective surgery so everyone in the room is healthy, should anyone wear a mask?

 

[jedi]

But if its elective surgery so everyone in the room is healthy, should anyone wear a mask?

When they cut open a human during surgery it's best to try and AVOID any germs/bacteria/microbes/etc from entering the body via a way the body is not designed to have such stuff enter (ie a hole in your stomach as they remove say the gallbaldder).

So for the safety of the patient everything should be clean/disinfected/etc and all people in that room helping the doctor should be wearing gear to protect the patient from getting any of that stuff.

If I sneeze near you, your body (nose) does a good job and ensuring the bad stuff doesnot affect you. However a joelle in your stomach is not designed to deal with me sneezing near you.

 

[Phase2]

But if its elective surgery so everyone in the room is healthy, should anyone wear a mask?

By definition, a body is not healthy when the skin is cut open. At that point, it is very vulnerable to infection.

 

[jamil]

When they cut open a human during surgery it's best to try and AVOID any germs/bacteria/microbes/etc from entering the body via a way the body is not designed to have such stuff enter (ie a hole in your stomach as they remove say the gallbaldder).

So for the safety of the patient everything should be clean/disinfected/etc and all people in that room helping the doctor should be wearing gear to protect the patient from getting any of that stuff.

If I sneeze near you, your body (nose) does a good job and ensuring the bad stuff doesnot affect you. However a joelle in your stomach is not designed to deal with me sneezing near you.

But that does admit that masks can be effective at doing that. And if you admit that one can be asymptomatic and still pass on germs, and there is a situation at hand where that can happen, you are admitting that sometimes people who aren't sick should wear masks to protect other people from getting your germs. I'm not arguing this point because i agree with mask shaming or whatever. I don't. I think people should make their own choices and live with them. If you're afraid of being infected by people who chose not to wear a mask, don't go there. If businesses choose to take a stand one way or the other, of their own choice, either patronize or don't depending how you feel about that. But when I think an illogical argument is made, that's the kind of post I'm likely to reply to. I don't think this is a good argument against wearing masks. Saying that healthy people not wearing masks is the default is a statement of opinion. It depends on the circumstances and what people believe about it.

 

[jamil]

By definition, a body is not healthy when the skin is cut open. At that point, it is very vulnerable to infection.

So being in proximity to a person vulnerable to infection is a reason that a healthy person might wear a mask. You don't say.

 

[JettaKnight]

The last paragraph of their posted announcement says these are recommendations and guidelines.

So what happens if I choose to walk around with no mask on.
What is the fine? What is the law I'm breaking? What is the penalty? I cant seem to find it.

I do understand that if I walk I to say Joe's bait shop without a mask and the owner says get out or wear one I need to leave to avoid trespassing or comply and wear one.

Thus why I put "require" in "".

Gotcha.


I said it elsewhere, but mandates work not because of any enforcement, but they get 95% compliance from people like me, the fence sitters. It's sort of a peer pressure effect. If it's mandated, then I don't have to be the oddball wearing one.



I know, I know, bring on the calls of being a sheep...


I'm not saying mandates are right or just, merely pointing out that enforcement isn't required for them to be effective.

 

[jedi]

Dont mix the two.

If you are cut open in a surgery room you are vulnerable since your normal defenses are not working (aka that hole in your stomach)

If you are in a normal situation (at walmart) your defenses are working. No need to wear a mask for those germs. Did you wear one last year when the flu was running around no. Your body handled it for you, provided you did not have that hole in stomach.

 

[chipbennett]

But if its elective surgery so everyone in the room is healthy, should anyone wear a mask?

Is this a serious question?

Surgery exposes parts of the body that are not intended to be exposed to atmosphere, thereby increasing the risk of even normal/acceptable levels of ambient pathogens (viable particulates) and nonviable particulates. That's why surgery - even elective surgery - takes place in environmentally classified rooms that control the amount of viable and nonviable particulates.

The human mouth is typically home to all manner of bacteria, even in healthy people. The mask helps keep those bacteria away from the exposed part(s) of the (healthy) patient's body.

 

[Phase2]

So being in proximity to a person vulnerable to infection is a reason that a healthy person might wear a mask. You don't say.

I Phase2, do hearby promise to immediately put on a mask as soon as someone cuts Jamil open in my presence.

 

[chipbennett]

So being in proximity to a person vulnerable to infection is a reason that a healthy person might wear a mask. You don't say.

Indeed, I would not intentionally breathe on someone who is cut open for surgery.

Did you have some other, more salient point to make?

 

[jamil]

Dont mix the two.

If you are cut open in a surgery room you are vulnerable since your normal defenses are not working (aka that hole in your stomach)

If you are in a normal situation (at walmart) your defenses are working. No need to wear a mask for those germs. Did you wear one last year when the flu was running around no. Your body handled it for you, provided you did not have that hole in stomach.

Are you saying that in a normal situation when your normal defenses are working, that will prevent you from being infected by the corona virus? Because that's what it reads like to me.

And the thing about whether I wore a mask for the flu season or not isn't relevant to the argument you put forth that healthy defenses will prevent you from catching covid. People catch the flu even though their defense systems are working. That has nothing to do with why I might wear a mask in closed in areas where I can't distance myself from people. Comparisons to the flu aren't altogether relevant anyway. Covid seems to be more contagious, and it's obviously not seasonal, and it has some harmful effects other than being potentially deadly, that the flu doesn't have.

 

[jamil]

Indeed, I would not intentionally breathe on someone who is cut open for surgery.

Did you have some other, more salient point to make?

If you can't see that it's essentially the argument you're making, no. I don't have anything else to add.


EDIT: well, yeah I do have a question. Are you saying that healthy people walking around in close proximity aren't vulnerable to infection?

 

[Alpo]

Let's quit picking nits....shall we?

 

[OurDee]

The human body does a spectacular job at protecting itself to the point that it can sometimes kill itself by over responding to Pooh's Breath. It is called cytokine storm syndrome.

 

[johny5]

Let's quit picking nits....shall we?

And do what, exactly, discuss guns n' stuff?