-
Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
Course of action to take for immigration problem?
- Thread starter rambone
- Start date
-
- Tags
- illegal immigration
The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana
Member Benefits:
Fewer Ads! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
Vlad the Impaler
Expert
I voted "other".
As an employer, it is easy to check validity of documentation of employees, I've done it and fired dozens of illegals.
If employers were held accountable for hiring illegals, just as they are held accountable for environmental regulation, large amounts of progress would be made.
Industrial Plant Managers can be taken out in cuffs and plants shut down for illegal discharges, falsifying records, etc with resect to envionmental regulations.......and it's not surprising they comply! The same could be true in the case of hiring illegal workers.
I think if you take the job incentive away, the motivation for illegal immigration will greatly diminish. Most coming here want to work. The problem is that the uneducated illegal is the biggest drain on social programs and local govenments (YOUR property taxes). There is a very comprehensive National Academy of Sciene study on this from the 1990s. If you read it you will see that the federal govenment has no incentive to limit illegal immigration but states and local governments should be jumping at restrictions heavily. I have referenced it here a long time ago.
As an employer, it is easy to check validity of documentation of employees, I've done it and fired dozens of illegals.
If employers were held accountable for hiring illegals, just as they are held accountable for environmental regulation, large amounts of progress would be made.
Industrial Plant Managers can be taken out in cuffs and plants shut down for illegal discharges, falsifying records, etc with resect to envionmental regulations.......and it's not surprising they comply! The same could be true in the case of hiring illegal workers.
I think if you take the job incentive away, the motivation for illegal immigration will greatly diminish. Most coming here want to work. The problem is that the uneducated illegal is the biggest drain on social programs and local govenments (YOUR property taxes). There is a very comprehensive National Academy of Sciene study on this from the 1990s. If you read it you will see that the federal govenment has no incentive to limit illegal immigration but states and local governments should be jumping at restrictions heavily. I have referenced it here a long time ago.
Unless we the people change it it will be the same. I guess for you out there who believe they have the right just because they are here, good luck with that. Every generation of my family has atleast done a four year tour to protect our country I believe in and my family has believed in for many years. My ancestors got here by being indentured servants. I just have a hard time just openning a door to a flood gate of people willing and able to abuse the system working without paying into the system and then sending cars and money home to familys and in return more drugs and people what a trade. I'm not saying all are bad just I see the under the radar buisness that pay no taxes and cut the honest mans throat stealing the work they are illegally doing for a cheaper uninsured and no over head price they are killing our labor fource and making it hard on the american worker. Also they do a crime and they get deported paid for by us. Two weeks later back across the border. plz help me see the good. Just the thoughts of a guy who knows alittle history and will not repeat it nor back down.
IMO, the problem is not with immigration, it is what happens AFTER immigrants come here.
No one that I know of is against immigration BUT (my opinion) when you come to this country you MUST learn to comform to our culture. You can be proud of your heritage, but you must want to become an American. By that I mean do NOT expect America to conform to how things were/are in the country you came from. A large precentage of people who come here is to leave the s**thole they lived in. Do NOT come here expecting to turn this country into a s**thole like you came from. We do NOT owe you anything, you must EARN it. Don't march in the streets waving the flag of the country you came from and demand us to bend over and grab our ankles to cater to you. IMO THESE are the major reasons causing the animosity towards immigration today.
Requirements:
Learn to speak English. By that I mean, if you need to conduct business with whomever, YOU must provide someone to interpert for you. Business and government will no longer be required to cater to your needs. You must become a member of society in America, and since we speak English, you must too.
Show/prove you are capable of being self sustaining, and can be a productive member of society. If you have shown this to be true, THEN you would be entitled to possible government assistance IF it might become necessary. This also would mean you are responsible for your own medical care, whether it is thru an employer or out of your own pocket.
If and when you meet the requirements of becoming a citizen of the U.S. (working and paying taxes like responsible citizens do) THEN you will be entitled to access the assistance/entitlements offered in this country.
If you cannot, or choose not to do this you will not be allowed to remain here and be a burden to society.
Now.... what do we do with the citizens of the U.S. who choose not to do this?
No one that I know of is against immigration BUT (my opinion) when you come to this country you MUST learn to comform to our culture. You can be proud of your heritage, but you must want to become an American. By that I mean do NOT expect America to conform to how things were/are in the country you came from. A large precentage of people who come here is to leave the s**thole they lived in. Do NOT come here expecting to turn this country into a s**thole like you came from. We do NOT owe you anything, you must EARN it. Don't march in the streets waving the flag of the country you came from and demand us to bend over and grab our ankles to cater to you. IMO THESE are the major reasons causing the animosity towards immigration today.
Requirements:
Learn to speak English. By that I mean, if you need to conduct business with whomever, YOU must provide someone to interpert for you. Business and government will no longer be required to cater to your needs. You must become a member of society in America, and since we speak English, you must too.
Show/prove you are capable of being self sustaining, and can be a productive member of society. If you have shown this to be true, THEN you would be entitled to possible government assistance IF it might become necessary. This also would mean you are responsible for your own medical care, whether it is thru an employer or out of your own pocket.
If and when you meet the requirements of becoming a citizen of the U.S. (working and paying taxes like responsible citizens do) THEN you will be entitled to access the assistance/entitlements offered in this country.
If you cannot, or choose not to do this you will not be allowed to remain here and be a burden to society.
Now.... what do we do with the citizens of the U.S. who choose not to do this?
This post is seriously disturbing. Dross is completely accurate in his comments. It is easy to see how atrocities against humanities are committed, when you have people who think like this.
Do we murder the children and harvest their organs, too, or just the men and women? That will sure teach them to speak English, won't it?
If you really want to cut off the flow of illegal immigrants, you have to treat the cause, not the symptoms. I agree that any government programs besides emergency services should be eliminated for illegal immigrants, but I think that the number of illegal immigrants actually receiving government aid is overblown. Start locking up business owners and managers who knowingly employ illegal immigrants, and you'll see illegal immigration come to a grinding halt. They are coming here mostly for the work and pay.
As far as illegal immigrants taking jobs from Americans....well, I don't think that happens much. Quite a few Americans will not work at minimum wage, especially in labor intensive jobs. I find it hard to believe that an illegal immigrant who can barely speak English is serious competition for an American citizen in the job market. Unless your idea of a career is picking fruit or flipping burgers, or course. If that's the case, you likely don't pay any income taxes anyway, with the earned income credit and deductions for family members.
And the argument that illegal immigrants don't "pay into the system" is a myth. Everyone pays sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, etc. And as far as income taxes go, if an illegal immigrant worker gets income tax deducted from a paycheck, he is not going to file a return, and he is not going to get any money back, no matter what his tax bracket. If he's being payed "under the table," well, who is the real criminal? The illegal immigrant who came here to work and support his family, or the tax cheat who is exploiting him in order to line his pockets, at the expense of American workers?
Illegal immigration is a real problem, and should be addressed. But the day we choose genocide as a solution is the day we stop being America.
A wall won't work. A determined person can go over, around, under or through any wall. Those who advocate killing them... that will never happen. We aren't barbaric murderers after all.
1) The first thing we need to do is eliminate the reason so many illegals come here in the first place. With that in mind, we need to eliminate the access to entitlement programs of any sort, including welfare, foodstamps, housing assistance and healthcare among others, until someone has been here, been documented, been legitimately employed, and filed tax returns for a minimum of 3 years. Or limit those programs to citizens only (my preference). The three years residency requirement would be retroactive to when they arrived, as long as they can show they were legitimately employed during that time.
2) Any company caught knowingly employing illegals should immediately lose its business license, and have its doors closed for conspiring to violate federal law. Further, any management personnel that were aware of the illegal employees should be imprisoned for a minimum of 1 year. Further, anyone caught paying an employee less than the required minimum wage, or overtime, as required by federal law, should face such severe sanctions that it would have been cheaper just to pay those employees at least minimum wage to begin with. This will most likely cause some stuff to cost a bit more, but that's the way it goes.
3) There should be no limit to the number of people emigrating here. Now, that said, everyone coming over the border to live here, needs to be fingerprinted, background-checked, photographed, and receive a unique social security number. Their prints and pictures would be retained in an immigration database, which would be checked when someone comes here in order to make sure they’re not trying to scam the system. This way, their backgrounds and credit histories follow them.
4) Immigrants shouldn't have to have a job waiting for them, but should instead have to compete for jobs like everyone else. If someone can't hold a job, that's their problem, just like it's my problem if *I* can't hold a job. Obviously this paragraph wouldn’t apply to temporary visitors.
5) Anybody caught here illegally should be deported the first time, and imprisoned the 2nd time for a minimum of 24 months, and then deported. 60 months for subsequent offenses. The cost of incarceration would be more than offset by the savings we would realize when we eliminate their access to the entitlement programs. Also, I believe in inmate work programs. Put them to work fixing the crumbling infrastructure of our country.
6) To go along with this, we would need a temporary amnesty period, during which time those illegals that are already here would have a reasonable amount of time to get registered, printed, photographed, background checked, and get squared away, without fear of being immediately deported. After that period, if they’re caught here illegally, see #4 above.
7) Establish temporary housing and medical facilities at the border crossing points for people coming in, wherein they can stay while they wait the few days for their backgrounds to be checked, and their documents to be prepared. They can use the money they would have paid coyotes to bring them here to pay for their lodging, food, medical check-up, etc. during this time, without fear of dying or getting raped in the desert, or getting caught and deported, or whatever other bad things happen out there. Or, if they’re at a crossing point like Tijuana, they could just stay in Tijuana for a few days while this gets done. There could easily be a bus station there as well, where they could get a cheap ticket to anywhere in the country they want to go. The few thousand dollars they would pay a coyote to bring them across the border should more than cover these expenses.
This would be easy enough to implement and I think would be sustainable. It is in no way a complete plan, but simply a brief outline of some of my thoughts on this matter. There are aspects to this that are a real compromise on my beliefs, but I recognize that some things are just never going to happen (like complete elimination of entitlements) and I'm trying to be realistic here.
1) The first thing we need to do is eliminate the reason so many illegals come here in the first place. With that in mind, we need to eliminate the access to entitlement programs of any sort, including welfare, foodstamps, housing assistance and healthcare among others, until someone has been here, been documented, been legitimately employed, and filed tax returns for a minimum of 3 years. Or limit those programs to citizens only (my preference). The three years residency requirement would be retroactive to when they arrived, as long as they can show they were legitimately employed during that time.
2) Any company caught knowingly employing illegals should immediately lose its business license, and have its doors closed for conspiring to violate federal law. Further, any management personnel that were aware of the illegal employees should be imprisoned for a minimum of 1 year. Further, anyone caught paying an employee less than the required minimum wage, or overtime, as required by federal law, should face such severe sanctions that it would have been cheaper just to pay those employees at least minimum wage to begin with. This will most likely cause some stuff to cost a bit more, but that's the way it goes.
3) There should be no limit to the number of people emigrating here. Now, that said, everyone coming over the border to live here, needs to be fingerprinted, background-checked, photographed, and receive a unique social security number. Their prints and pictures would be retained in an immigration database, which would be checked when someone comes here in order to make sure they’re not trying to scam the system. This way, their backgrounds and credit histories follow them.
4) Immigrants shouldn't have to have a job waiting for them, but should instead have to compete for jobs like everyone else. If someone can't hold a job, that's their problem, just like it's my problem if *I* can't hold a job. Obviously this paragraph wouldn’t apply to temporary visitors.
5) Anybody caught here illegally should be deported the first time, and imprisoned the 2nd time for a minimum of 24 months, and then deported. 60 months for subsequent offenses. The cost of incarceration would be more than offset by the savings we would realize when we eliminate their access to the entitlement programs. Also, I believe in inmate work programs. Put them to work fixing the crumbling infrastructure of our country.
6) To go along with this, we would need a temporary amnesty period, during which time those illegals that are already here would have a reasonable amount of time to get registered, printed, photographed, background checked, and get squared away, without fear of being immediately deported. After that period, if they’re caught here illegally, see #4 above.
7) Establish temporary housing and medical facilities at the border crossing points for people coming in, wherein they can stay while they wait the few days for their backgrounds to be checked, and their documents to be prepared. They can use the money they would have paid coyotes to bring them here to pay for their lodging, food, medical check-up, etc. during this time, without fear of dying or getting raped in the desert, or getting caught and deported, or whatever other bad things happen out there. Or, if they’re at a crossing point like Tijuana, they could just stay in Tijuana for a few days while this gets done. There could easily be a bus station there as well, where they could get a cheap ticket to anywhere in the country they want to go. The few thousand dollars they would pay a coyote to bring them across the border should more than cover these expenses.
This would be easy enough to implement and I think would be sustainable. It is in no way a complete plan, but simply a brief outline of some of my thoughts on this matter. There are aspects to this that are a real compromise on my beliefs, but I recognize that some things are just never going to happen (like complete elimination of entitlements) and I'm trying to be realistic here.
Last edited:
E5RANGER375
Shooter
shoot on site!
the others will get the hint and head back.
I'd even be willing to offer a ONE time amnesty if they turn themselves in, they will be provided FREE transportation to the southern or northern border. how they get back to their country from there is up to them. it would be cheaper than paying for all their anchor babies.
oh yeah, anchor babies gotta go too!
the others will get the hint and head back.
I'd even be willing to offer a ONE time amnesty if they turn themselves in, they will be provided FREE transportation to the southern or northern border. how they get back to their country from there is up to them. it would be cheaper than paying for all their anchor babies.
oh yeah, anchor babies gotta go too!
Dang, it's like your reading my mind
ElsiePeaRN
Expert
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Maybe our unicorns could arrange a play date together
dukeboy_318
Master
I think i remember hearing about an old General making the comment way back in the great world war 2, that if mountains and oceans can be overcome, anything built by man can be over come, now I wonder who said that?
Point Im trying to make is that even though I personally would love to see a giant Great Wall of America built and defended, the likely fact is that it would do little to secure out borders because they'd just find another way in. its sad but true
Point Im trying to make is that even though I personally would love to see a giant Great Wall of America built and defended, the likely fact is that it would do little to secure out borders because they'd just find another way in. its sad but true
BumpShadow
Master
Idk, Berlin had a damn fine wall back in the day. Politics aside, it did its job well I think. climb-proof wall, big kill zone, sniper towers, the works. A little water patrol action. Why not?
I have always thought the best way to solve this problem was to take away the free ride and the vast majority of illegals would leave on their own.
People constantly try to compare this invasion with immigrations of different people from our past. There is no comparison, never in our history have the posers that Lord over us bent over backwards so to illegal aliens. If the free ride goes so do the majority of illegals.
People constantly try to compare this invasion with immigrations of different people from our past. There is no comparison, never in our history have the posers that Lord over us bent over backwards so to illegal aliens. If the free ride goes so do the majority of illegals.
It seems that removing the draw of social programs seems to be the winner among INGO to date.
How much do the illegals really drain off the system? If you include the free emergency room medical care and education, it's a lot. But if we're talking about welfare-style entitlement programs, do they really get that much? I really don't know.
How much do the illegals really drain off the system? If you include the free emergency room medical care and education, it's a lot. But if we're talking about welfare-style entitlement programs, do they really get that much? I really don't know.
How about billions?!
Several hospitals have been bankrupted because of them.
Yep! They all need to stop receiving any "benefit" (public aid, healthcare, childbirth, etc. Then they all need to be kicked out of the country.
(Let the employers help pay for the removal of "their" illegals. The illegals can use thier "last pay" to contribute to the transportation back across the borders, or overseas also. )
No more "Anchor babies". (How can the child of an illegal be anything but an illegal? Two wrongs don't make a right.)
gunman41mag
Shooter
We should send the illegal aliens back to their country, starting with obama's aunt
Lets just look at this one aspect. A pregnant illegal alien gets prenatal care, then when she pops that is free, after the anchor baby is born they get welfare to raise the asset they have created. Then we educate the kid, feed it free lunch's while it goes to school, whoops I mean free lunch's even during the summer. So we pay for the kid to be born then we pay to raise and educate it. How many Americans have had to pay for the birth of their children?
If you want to see this process in mass take a look at the garden city grade school on Rockville Rd. west side Indy.
Site Supporter
Staff online
-
KellyinAvonBlue-ID Mafia Consigliere -
mom45Momerator -
texkevAdministrator
Members online
- phylodog
- jsharmon7
- KMaC
- red_zr24x4
- MinuteManMike
- Sargent
- hhi7410
- jamil
- KellyinAvon
- radar8756
- frenchiectfd2203
- tjones
- VERT
- markholst
- Jvernon
- Bluejrdn5
- JoeBear44
- BeDome
- Hoosier Carry
- Dog1
- KJQ6945
- TheGrumpyGuy
- 2tonic
- sp3worker
- Ark
- mom45
- erasure
- jdadkins87
- natdscott
- grunt soldier
- tge45
- rkwhyte2
- browndog2
- NHT3
- patience0830
- Rescue912
- Gaffer
- Outta_hand
- Myrradah
- Crash7
- fishbass62
- Kirk Freeman
- Billyho4260
- texkev
- kotaoz
- IndyTom
- bmmyers08
- Zionsville
- sharkey
- duboismd
