Damage to Sig Sauer

[fishin4wd]

I purchased a new Sig Sauer P226 Elite pistol in December. I have since shot 2500 rounds through it. I now see the slide rail has some damage to the left side. It appears there are grooves or small chips out of the metal. I would attach a picture but you can barely see the defect. It is easy to feel with your finger though.

I consulted the store I bought it from and was told by the "Sig expert" that I was not lubricating the firearm properly. He then sold me some solid "grease" to use instead of oil.

When I purchased an $800 gun I thought I was getting something I would eventually pass down to one of my kids. I'm concerned that's not the case.

I am relatively new to handgun shooting but have been shooting and caring for rifles and shotguns since my father started teaching me the sport as early as I can remember.

My question is this:

1. Should I plan on replacing this handgun after a few years?
2. Are all handgun manufactures like this? (I researched and thought Sig was a good choice.)
3. Am I getting a load of crap from the store?

 

[gunman41mag]

I purchased a new Sig Sauer P226 Elite pistol in December. I have since shot 2500 rounds through it. I now see the slide rail has some damage to the left side. It appears there are grooves or small chips out of the metal. I would attach a picture but you can barely see the defect. It is easy to feel with your finger though.

I consulted the store I bought it from and was told by the "Sig expert" that I was not lubricating the firearm properly. He then sold me some solid "grease" to use instead of oil.

When I purchased an $800 gun I thought I was getting something I would eventually pass down to one of my kids. I'm concerned that's not the case.

I am relatively new to handgun shooting but have been shooting and caring for rifles and shotguns since my father started teaching me the sport as early as I can remember.

My question is this:

1. Should I plan on replacing this handgun after a few years?
2. Are all handgun manufactures like this? (I researched and thought Sig was a good choice.)
3. Am I getting a load of crap from the store?

I would call SIG, tell them the problem, & have your gun shipped to SIG on their dime

 

[Walt_Jabsco]

I'm going to go with the option 3. I've owned and shot a number of Sigs, never really done much oiling of them at all. A tiny bit of oil on the slide rails should be enough, no grease should be necessary. Contact Sig about it. While they don't technically warranty their guns, if you're having a serious defect after 2500 rounds, they should be willing to fix it.

 

[iamaclone45]

Looks like we are seeing a trend of quality issues with Sigs here on the forum lately (Sig 556R, Mosquito, etc).

 

[ProLibertate]

I have a few Sigs, and my wife's everyday carry gun is a Sig Sauer P238.

I would definitely call Sig and let them know about the problem. I have had nothing but good experiences with Sig's customer service.
My wife had some odd spotting/discoloration on the slide of her P238. Barely visible with the naked eye. She called them and they told her to email some pics. She did so, and 15 minutes later they emailed her back a UPS Overnight shipping label with instructions on returning it to them. This was one week ago. Yesterday she got an email from them notifying her that it had been shipped back Second Day Air to her with a brand new slide at no cost whatsoever.

I had a similar experience with Sig on my early model P238 "safety upgrade". Shipped overnight on their dime and had it back in my hands 4 days later with a complimentary spare mag included.

For what it's worth, Sig does actually recommend the use of synthetic light grease for most of their firearms vs plain ol' gun oil. I've used both and haven't noticed a difference in performance, accuracy, durability or reliability, but YMMV.

Regardless of the lubrication you use, you ought to call them. I'll just bet you they fix the issue with little to no hassle. My experience has been that they really stand behind their product.

Let us know how it works out!

 

[huzyerdaddy]

You need to use a synthetic grease from Mil-Comm, TW25B, recommended by Sig, it has a higher viscosity than oil. This issue about wear has been talked about at great length at sigforum.com, and I believe what you are describing is normal...

 

[fishin4wd]

I'll call Sig on Monday to see what they say. I'll post an update either way.

I bought a Mosquito to shoot with my kids and I have to say it is terrible. So many FTF, FTE that I am nervous letting the kids shoot it. Seems like that is the norm with the Mosquito from what I have read online, but I only paid $250 for it so I wasn't that concerned. I plan to sell it and choose another .22LR for cheap range visits and reliable shooting with the kids.

I have tried several kinds of Ammo and I can honestly say the Mosquito has never finished a 10 round magazine without something going wrong.

I bought a P238 recently and sold it a month ago because it was a finicky too. The guy I sold it to has had the same results and is planning to sell it.

I'm not a big Sig fan at this point...

I love my p226 so I hope thier Customer Service changes my mind about the company.

 

[hickuleas]

I was a huge fan of Sig Sauer. Now i only want the older ones made in West Germany or some of the newer german made guns. The Sigs made in NH aren't of the same quality as the german counterparts. Many US gun manufactures have had a decline in quality but i think Sig is winning the crappy quality race.

 

[ProLibertate]

"I'll call Sig on Monday to see what they say. I'll post an update either way.

I have tried several kinds of Ammo and I can honestly say the Mosquito has never finished a 10 round magazine without something going wrong."

The mosquito is junk. I still can't believe Sig put their name on it. I got a S&W 2214 in .22LR that is a great plinker gun with a grip comparable in size to a Glock 23. Great reliability with over 2500 rounds down the pipe so far. Very unique design and very cheap. I think I got it for around 150 used.

"I bought a P238 recently and sold it a month ago because it was a finicky too. The guy I sold it to has had the same results and is planning to sell it."

Just out of curiosity, what problems did you have with the P238? They have a new generation of "flat wire" recoil spring out for the P238 for a free upgrade that fixes the feed issues caused by the weak older style spring failing to return the slide to battery.

.

 

[fishin4wd]

Thanks for the help

You need to use a synthetic grease from Mil-Comm, TW25B, recommended by Sig, it has a higher viscosity than oil. This issue about wear has been talked about at great length at sigforum.com, and I believe what you are describing is normal...

I'm thinking this is going to be a "normal" issue for the next owner of this gun if what you are saying is true.

As a newbie to handguns I read the manual from cover to cover and there was no mention of TW25. As a shooter since age 4 I have never seen a firearm degrade so quickly and obviously.

 

[ProLibertate]

I'm thinking this is going to be a "normal" issue for the next owner of this gun if what you are saying is true.

As a newbie to handguns I read the manual from cover to cover and there was no mention of TW25. As a shooter since age 4 I have never seen a firearm degrade so quickly and obviously.

You could always 'drink the koolaid' and get a Glock or three like the rest of us...

I like both the Sig and the Glock for what they are. I agree that the newer Sigs seem to be rushed into the market and they fix all the bugs as they go (i.e. the safety and recoil springs on the P238) A little more time in R&D would fix a lot of their initial quality issues.
And Glocks? Well... It's a Glock. It's pretty hard to hurt one.

 

[fishin4wd]

Just out of curiosity, what problems did you have with the P238? They have a new generation of "flat wire" recoil spring out for the P238 for a free upgrade that fixes the feed issues caused by the weak older style spring failing to return the slide to battery.
.

I was having feed issues with the P238. I bought the gun in January and never called Sig. It was a popular model with the laser and I had the chance to get most of my investment back.

What does "return the slide to battery" mean?

 

[ProLibertate]

What does "return the slide to battery" mean?

A type of "failure to feed" essentially.

The first round is fired, the slide recoils to the rear, the extractor ejects the spent casing, the slide cycles back forward again picking up another round from the magazine, and "returns to battery". In other words, the 'new' round enters the chamber and the slide returns to it's fully forward/locked in position. With the weak spring on the original P238 design, the slide would grab a round from the magazine, but sometimes did not retain enough energy to push the round all the way into the chamber. At a glance the gun would look normal and ready to fire, but upon closer inspection the slide is still back slightly (1/16th to 1/8th of an inch) therefore disabling the pistol from functioning. Simply pushing the slide the rest of the way forward into battery clears the malfunction, but in a gunfight that downtime could be fatal.
The new "flat wire" spring that Sig released is about 70% longer than the original and 8 or 9 pounds heavier, but still uses the original guide rod.
Stronger spring= faster and more reliable cycling and no more FTF's.

 

[dtkw]

I have two Sig, a P226 and a P229 both made in Germany. So far no problem after thousands of rounds. I lube them with TW25 that I got after reading the insert saying something about how they endorsed the TW25 for all their guns.

 

[Jake46184]

There's a common misunderstanding introduced in this thread that I see on many gun forums.

There is NEVER a time when grease is better for a firearm than oil. By definition, grease inhibits movement. The reason people often use grease instead of oil is laziness. Grease stays in place longer but is definitely NOT a better choice. If you clean your gun and apply oil often, as you should, your rails, barrel, etc., will avoid a lot of the damage that occurs (especially in Sigs) from running them dry. Sig NEVER recommends grease, any grease, over oil. If you're going to shoot a Sig, you'll need to apply oil more than once to your rails and barrel during a long range session.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

Go to Sigforum.com, and find "Flork's lubrication recommendations"' Oh, and if you've dropped in, thanks again, Flork.

 

[rockhopper46038]

+1 to Flork's Guide to Lubrication, linked above. And +1 to Flork! Also, SIGForum does have a lot of information on what the OP may be describing. Without pictures, it's hard to tell. There is a roll pin in the frame that I have seen cause scratches in the slide when it stands slightly proud of the hole it is pinned into. Not something you want to see, but mostly cosmetic once the slide and frame fit wears together. The scratch won't go away, but it won't get any worse. There is also sometimes a burr on the edge of the slide stop "window" which creates a scratch on the frame that extends from where the slide stop window is in battery, to where the slide stop window is when the slide is in full recoil position. Again, not fun to find, but cosmetic. The scratch on the frame (which is aluminum) should look "gold" at the bottom of the scratch, which is the anodizing showing through the Nitron finish. It's if that gold turns dull silvery gray that you need to worry.
I've got 3 SIGs (2 P228's, 1 X-Five); all are great pistols, all are West German models. One of them came to me used, with the scratch from the roll pin I described above. It hasn't gotten any worse. The other two show no perceptible wear. If I were looking at a new SIG I would check both of those areas before purchasing (knowing that if you find them in advance of racking the slide, you can fix them before they cause the scratch), and I would follow Flork's guide from the get-go. Take pictures and email them to SIG; they may take care of it for you.

 

[Osobuco]

There's a common misunderstanding introduced in this thread that I see on many gun forums.

There is NEVER a time when grease is better for a firearm than oil. By definition, grease inhibits movement. The reason people often use grease instead of oil is laziness. Grease stays in place longer but is definitely NOT a better choice. If you clean your gun and apply oil often, as you should, your rails, barrel, etc., will avoid a lot of the damage that occurs (especially in Sigs) from running them dry. Sig NEVER recommends grease, any grease, over oil. If you're going to shoot a Sig, you'll need to apply oil more than once to your rails and barrel during a long range session.

You are not entirely accurate in your post. On page 51 of my Sig556 manual it states, " Lightly lubricate areas of metal contact with high quality firearms lubricant or grease." So stating that sig never recommends grease is simply incorrect.
That said I use oil on all my guns. The only spot i use grease is on my O/U shotguns at the hinge. I learned that from a professional sporting clays shooter who is sponsored by Browning.

 

[red_zr24x4]

There's a common misunderstanding introduced in this thread that I see on many gun forums.

There is NEVER a time when grease is better for a firearm than oil. By definition, grease inhibits movement. The reason people often use grease instead of oil is laziness. Grease stays in place longer but is definitely NOT a better choice. If you clean your gun and apply oil often, as you should, your rails, barrel, etc., will avoid a lot of the damage that occurs (especially in Sigs) from running them dry. Sig NEVER recommends grease, any grease, over oil. If you're going to shoot a Sig, you'll need to apply oil more than once to your rails and barrel during a long range session.

Aparently you've never owned/shot/read a military manual pertaining to an M1 Garand. I'am assuming it also goes for a M1A. Since they supplied a "grease pot" with every buttstock cleaning kit in both rifles.
Having said that, I use grease on the rails of my 226 with no issues. Now remember you have a steel slide on a aluminum frame, you're going to get some wear.
My Sig is from about '98 if I remember correctly. I have a few shiney spots on the rails. It shoots fine, locks up tight, and has no "slop" in the frame/slide fit.

 

[huzyerdaddy]

I have two Sig, a P226 and a P229 both made in Germany. So far no problem after thousands of rounds. I lube them with TW25 that I got after reading the insert saying something about how they endorsed the TW25 for all their guns.

This is the best stuff, TW25b - grease, TW2500 - oil, and their MC25 weapon cleaner is all you need for Sigs...a sample is included with all new pistols and IS recommended by Sig...