Defense of property with deadly force?

[ThrottleJockey]

I have been the victom of theft in the past, as I am sure many on here have. It sucks, but property is replaceable. Sure it pisses me off to no end to have my property stolen, but I would not consider taking a life over it.

Unlawfully enter my home, intend to harm my child or myself...yes, but personal property no. Just my

So you claim to know the intentions of every burglar? If some jackwagon is in my house stealing I assume he is armed and means to do me harm if he is discovered or that his intentions are more than just stealing. Now IMO that is a safe and fair assumption based upon the fact that this person is in MY house committing multiple felonies and likely doesn't want to get caught or go to jail.

 

[youngda9]

^^ I think you mis-read what he was saying. There were three seperate items there.

Unlawfully enter my home - Yes
intend to harm my child or myself - Yes
personal property - No

 

[sonofagun]

So you claim to know the intentions of every burglar? If some jackwagon is in my house stealing I assume he is armed and means to do me harm if he is discovered or that his intentions are more than just stealing. Now IMO that is a safe and fair assumption based upon the fact that this person is in MY house committing multiple felonies and likely doesn't want to get caught or go to jail.

According to the IC I think you are good to go.

Deadly force is justified to prevent or terminate the intruder's unlawful entry of or attack on your dwelling.

If the BG is escaping with a PC in tow, you are no longer justified in shooting unless, of course, you are in fear for your life or another's life.

Also, I believe "dead men don't talk" or "drag him inside" is dangerous and irresponsible rhetoric.

 

[dyerwatcher]

Insurance is good for those who would steal from you. Guns are good for those who would try to kill you.

+1

Did you feel threatened or endangered?????

 

[jeremy]

Also, I believe "dead men don't talk" or "drag him inside" is dangerous and irresponsible rhetoric.

You are so right...

I prefer Pigs and Backhoes myself...
I have heard that Mulcher will also do quite a nice job as well, although difficult to clean...

I'll call your and raise you more...

 

[sonofagun]

You are so right...

I prefer Pigs and Backhoes myself...
I have heard that Mulcher will also do quite a nice job as well, although difficult to clean...

I'll call your and raise you more...

 

[DragonGunner]

^^ I think you mis-read what he was saying. There were three seperate items there.

Unlawfully enter my home - Yes
intend to harm my child or myself - Yes
personal property - No

Except...."He was stealing my motocycle an I caught him an asked him to leave....thats when he pulled that srewdriver an came at me. I was in fear of my life an shot him......see.....theres the screwdriver in his dead hand."

 

[kludge]

Insurance is good for those who would steal from you.

Yes, but...

It would be a good idea for people to read and understand their policies. Unless you have a rider, chances are that there are limits for claims wrt personal property claims.

Jewelry, art, firearms, boats, computer equipment, bullion, there's a lot to think about, and generally people are very disappointed after a theft as to what is actually covered and how low the limits are.

Take inventory, take pictures, model, serial number, have it appraised if need be. Put it all on a CD. Make an extra copy to store off-site (@ work, @ family). Go over it yearly and update it. When you buy a new expensive item scan or photograph the receipt and add it to your file.

Talk to your agent about your limits and get riders for the stuff you can't cover/can't afford to replace within the limits.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Yes, but...

It would be a good idea for people to read and understand their policies. Unless you have a rider, chances are that there are limits for claims wrt personal property claims.

Jewelry, art, firearms, boats, computer equipment, bullion, there's a lot to think about, and generally people are very disappointed after a theft as to what is actually covered and how low the limits are.

Take inventory, take pictures, model, serial number, have it appraised if need be. Put it all on a CD. Make an extra copy to store off-site (@ work, @ family). Go over it yearly and update it. When you buy a new expensive item scan or photograph the receipt and add it to your file.

Talk to your agent about your limits and get riders for the stuff you can't cover/can't afford to replace within the limits.

This brings up another interesting point I've made a time or two. Insurance companies require a rider for your firearms and a listing of them and their serial numbers.....Tell me THAT isn't backdoor registration.

 

[John Galt]

Who is John Galt?

I'm not sure it's a good idea to attempt a discussion with a thief to try and talk them out of it.

Sorry, I probably didn't make it very clear, but I was referring to discovering someone stealing property outside [trespassing onto my property attempting to steal my hard-earned property] of my home; lawn mower, tools, etc. I wouldn't have a discussion with him and I wouldn't try to talk him out of it. I WOULD make it crystal clear that I had a very good bead on him, I'm calling the cops and that ANY movement on his part would result in me being in fear for my life. I couldn't justify shooting somebody just over property OUTSIDE of my home. Now, if they are INSIDE my house, then I consider that as a direct threat and more than just a potential theft, then it's more than likely an ensuing mag dump of well placed shots, intended only to neutralize the threat.

 

[Glock17 Man]

Except...."He was stealing my motocycle an I caught him an asked him to leave....thats when he pulled that srewdriver an came at me. I was in fear of my life an shot him......see.....theres the screwdriver in his dead hand."

Just ask him he will not deny a word of it.

 

[mrortega]

I love to use the same answer every time a thread like this sprouts up: Say "hi" to Bubba and all the boys in the cell block. They love new faces regularly.

 

[Lead Head]

I'M NOT A LAWYER.

Protecting life inside the home or if outside (LTCH) and you "feared for your life" or that of your loved ones, occupants, guests, etc., then deadly force may be justified.

Catching someone in the act of stealing a physical material item is not a reason to shoot someone in my opinion. If you do catch them in the act (inside the home or attached garage) and they would draw on you with equal force (gun vs. gun) then blow the trash away and finish the job. They could have a really big knife and charge you and again, waste 'em.

Proof is on you since the dead guy can't talk.

Thinking clearly in the heat of the moment is never easy for anyone but if you actually "feared for your life" there would likely be a very big reason for it and not just having something stolen. Yes getting ripped off blows big time but killing another human being over "stuff" is not worth the lead.

 

[PriestEG]

Well, if we are going to draw legal conclusions from movies, then how did it work out for Denzel Washington at the end of the movie?

Property=reasonable force which is not deadly force. But remember if you do tackle them and initiate a juijitsu match then what happens if they get hurt (ahem, happens to cops all the time and look at the reaction among some of the public), or you get hurt or they have a blood or skin-borne pathogen?

I'd rather work to replace my motorcycle by calling the insurance company then have to appear for depositions, pay attorneys, lose time at work, inter alia.

there was no legal conclusions drawn from any movie it was mearly an observation of the way some things work. im not saying that taking a life for stealing my property is justified, but if someone is in my house i automatically will assume the worst. i would think that anyone breaking into house with the intent of theft would be armed in some capacity(or able to find an item in my house to use as a weapon) to defend themselves if they were to get busted.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

there was no legal conclusions drawn from any movie it was mearly an observation of the way some things work. im not saying that taking a life for stealing my property is justified, but if someone is in my house i automatically will assume the worst. i would think that anyone breaking into house with the intent of theft would be armed in some capacity(or able to find an item in my house to use as a weapon) to defend themselves if they were to get busted.

Yeah, since they broke into your home they wouldn't be defending themselves, YOU would! I think I know what you meant though An odd steak knife that doesn't match the rest, a bat,etc...

 

[Kirk Freeman]

there was no legal conclusions drawn from any movie it was mearly an observation of the way some things work.

Just having fun.

 

[youngda9]

I'M NOT A LAWYER.

Protecting life inside the home or if outside (LTCH) and you "feared for your life" or that of your loved ones, occupants, guests, etc., then deadly force may be justified.

Catching someone in the act of stealing a physical material item is not a reason to shoot someone in my opinion. If you do catch them in the act (inside the home or attached garage) and they would draw on you with equal force (gun vs. gun) then blow the trash away and finish the job. They could have a really big knife and charge you and again, waste 'em.

Proof is on you since the dead guy can't talk.

Thinking clearly in the heat of the moment is never easy for anyone but if you actually "feared for your life" there would likely be a very big reason for it and not just having something stolen. Yes getting ripped off blows big time but killing another human being over "stuff" is not worth the lead.

Yes, this thread is just dripping with pre-meditation. Seems some really want to find a reason to have to fire that gun.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Yes, this thread is just dripping with pre-meditation. Seems some really want to find a reason to have to fire that gun.

If consciously choosing to not be a victim is pre-meditation then sure.

 

[youngda9]

Talk of confrontation, escilation, and then shooting someone because they move, with some false pre-meditated and fabricated fear for their life, coupled with the suggestion of the planting of evidence, pigs and backhoes...Good stuff...keep on keepin on.

 

[DragonGunner]

Talk of confrontation, escilation, and then shooting someone because they move, with some false pre-meditated and fabricated fear for their life, coupled with the suggestion of the planting of evidence...Good stuff...keep on keepin on.

Ever confront a thief in the night? Let me now how it goes if your alive because you didn't want to make a false fabricated fear of your life.

We had a guy here in my town that confronted someone trying to steal his car, the owner didn't have a gun an the punk almost beat him to death, then took the car.