Did world war 3 just start?

[smokingman]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/28/ukraine-accuses-russia-of-taking-over-airports-live-updates

Obama getting ready to speak to the nation about Ukraine.

http://www.newsplex.com/news/politics/headlines/Pres-Obama-to-Speak-on-Ukraine-247893551.html (Live link)


2,000 RUSSIAN SOLDIERS LAND IN CRIMEA IN ARMED INVASION, KIEV OFFICIAL SAYS -- AFP

 

[cobber]

Jokes about objections and strongly worded letters aside...

What would some of you folks have the US government do about this?

Shut up, if they're not planning on doing anything.

Or while Russia is engaged in Ukraine, settle some other score somewhere else, say Venezuela or Cuba?

Or sign some defense pact with Beijing.

That would be very realpolitisch.

 

[smokingman]

Shut up, if they're not planning on doing anything.

Or while Russia is engaged in Ukraine, settle some other score somewhere else, say Venezuela or Cuba?

Or sign some defense pact with Beijing.

That would be very realpolitisch.

You do realize Russia and China have been allies since world war 1?China has never voted against Russia or Russian interests in the UN.Russia sells China most of their military aircraft and higher tech military hardware.I seriously doubt China would ever side with the USA as they have a long standing relationship with Moscow.Remember that whole Communism thing?

Russian President Vladimir Putin visited Chinese President Hu Jintao at the beginning of June this year, no fewer than 16 agreements were signed by the parties regarding energy, industry, research and foreign policy.
Perhaps the most critical aspect of the Russia-China agreements is the stated intention to move toward trade and investment payments in their national currencies, “in order thus to protect ourselves from diverse currency risks and to strengthen the positions of the ruble and the yuan.”

 

[88GT]

The US will do nothing but posture about red lines that can't be crossed.

They won't for a lot of reasons. But I would hope that one of the primary ones is that there's nothing to be gained from our involvement at this time. I can't be the only one who has always thought the "Stop or else" diplomatic posturing between nations was the international version of "Oh, yeah? Well, I'll......" of the school playground. We certainly aren't going to bomb Russia. Do they have an aspirin factory?

 

[Kutnupe14]

You do realize Russia and China have been allies since world war 1?China has never voted against Russia or Russian interests in the UN.Russia sells China most of their military aircraft and higher tech military hardware.I seriously doubt China would ever side with the USA as they have a long standing relationship with Moscow.Remember that whole Communism thing?

Russian President Vladimir Putin visited Chinese President Hu Jintao at the beginning of June this year, no fewer than 16 agreements were signed by the parties regarding energy, industry, research and foreign policy.
Perhaps the most critical aspect of the Russia-China agreements is the stated intention to move toward trade and investment payments in their national currencies, “in order thus to protect ourselves from diverse currency risks and to strengthen the positions of the ruble and the yuan.”

Russia and China have NOT always been allies (hell, they fought a border war in the 60s). It was only after the breakup of the Soviet Union, that they started getting "friendly" again.

 

[radar44]

Ukraine really needs to calm the **** down . Never fight a war on two fronts ..

If you're scrapping with each other , the last thing you want is for the neighbors to join in .

( so I've been told ) -

 

[88GT]

AFP BREAKING: 2,000 Russian soldiers land in "armed invasion" of Crimea: Kiev official


British Foreign Secretary Hague headed to Ukraine this weekend.

Ukraine's acting president formally accuses Putin of "provocations" in Crimea.

Ukraine's president says his army will not respond to the provocations to war.

Crimea now: air area closed, TV occupied, telecommunications knocked out, Russian armored vehicles head for capital

...

I need help understanding this as I haven't been following closely. This is the Ukrainian president that has been the object of the recent protests, yes? And he was "ousted" in a manner of speaking, yes? And he is [STRIKE]pro-Stalin[/STRIKE] pro-Putin/Russia at the cost of westernized democratic governance, yes? If that is all correct, then I think I understand the statement. No opposition means he gets to come back and bash some heads. If those aren't correct, would someone explain why a sovereign nation sits idly by and lets a super power with a history of controlling dominance (over your own damn country no less) walk in and take the reins?

Germany and Obama both warning Russia not to invade. You really think Putin is gonna listen to a GIRL!? Or Angela Merkel for that matter?

That's even better than your Olympic Closing Ceremony post.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

hell, they fought a border war in the 60s

1969, Damansky Island.

 

[88GT]

Ukraine really needs to calm the **** down . Never fight a war on two fronts ..

If you're scrapping with each other , the last thing you want is for the neighbors to join in .

( so I've been told ) -

I don't think Ukraine has much of a choice in this part.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I need help understanding this as I haven't been following closely. This is the Ukrainian president that has been the object of the recent protests, yes? And he was "ousted" in a manner of speaking, yes? And he is [STRIKE]pro-Stalin[/STRIKE] pro-Putin/Russia at the cost of westernized democratic governance, yes? If that is all correct, then I think I understand the statement. No opposition means he gets to come back and bash some heads. If those aren't correct, would someone explain why a sovereign nation sits idly by and lets a super power with a history of controlling dominance (over your own damn country no less) walk in and take the reins?


That's even better than your Olympic Closing Ceremony post.

No, it's not the ousted president. It's the new one.

 

[smokingman]

Russia and China have NOT always been allies (hell, they fought a border war in the 60s). It was only after the breakup of the Soviet Union, that they started getting "friendly" again.

I did forget about the border war in 1969.

As far as Oboma's speech.
U.S. BELIEVES GROUND TROOPS IN CRIMEA ARE INDEED RUSSIAN: CNN

• OBAMA SAYS ‘DEEPLY CONCERNED’ BY RUSSIAN MILITARY MOVEMENTS
• OBAMA SAYS "THERE WILL BE COSTS" FOR MILITARY INTERVENTION IN UKRAINE
• OBAMA SAYS "UKRAINE PEOPLE DESERVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DETERMINE THEIR OWN FUTURE"
• OBAMA SAYS HE COMMENDS RESTRAINT OF UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT
• OBAMA SAYS BIDEN HAS SPOKEN WITH PRIME MINISTER OF UKRAINE
• OBAMA SAYS U.S. SUPPORTS UKRANIAN SOVERIGNTY

 

[88GT]

No, it's not the ousted president. It's the new one.

The one the protestors support?

 

[Kutnupe14]

The one the protestors support?

Yeah, parliament elected him. He's sitting on his hands like a coward, if what they're saying is true. It's obvious that they want us, to come in and start busting heads. If he's not willing to mobilize the military when another nation actually sets foot on their sovereign soil, I see no reason why anybody else should help.

 

[smokingman]

The NEO Nazi "rebels" ousted the sitting president with outside help last week.He fled to Russia.The Neo Nazi party,now in power and in support of joined the EU in southern Ukraine has declared a new government,president,and official bank(along with most political posts in southern Ukraine.If anyone remembers a few weeks ago a leaked US Embassy call happened that called the EU some names,but mentioned possible replacements for the president of Ukraine.The one the US supported(the Neo Nazi)is now calling himself president of Ukraine.

The elected president of Ukraine has asked Russia for assistance against them.The IMF is already promising money as is the United States to the "New" government(loans).Russia was offering 5 billion prior to the new government forming.

In short it comes down to which bankers control the country,and then toss in the volitle mix of a Russian naval base,and pipe line that feeds 45% of all the gas for Europe.

Lots of interesting things happening with Neo Nazi groups all over the world sending people to Ukraine to support the new government(not mainstream news,but the information is out there so to speak).

 

[smokingman]

Yeah, parliament elected him. He's sitting on his hands like a coward, if what they're saying is true. It's obvious that they want us, to come in and start busting heads. If he's not willing to mobilize the military when another nation actually sets foot on their sovereign soil, I see no reason why anybody else should help.

Not exactly.The parliament was not in session(it was a Sunday),and less than 1/3 where actually present to vote.Of course had the full parliament been in session the elected president would still probably be in office,not the "new" speaker of the parliament who now calls himself president.

The parliament on Sunday assigned presidential powers to its new speaker, Tymoshenko ally Oleksandr Turchinov, who said top priorities include saving the economy and "returning to the path of European integration

"New" speaker,because the speaker at the close of the session on Friday was not present at the vote on Sunday(and is/was a member of the majority party).The former speakers current location are not known according to RT news,along with most of the members of parliament.

So to say they voted out the existing president is pretty much a lie.They held a secret session on a Sunday with 1/3 of the members being notified it was happening and performed a coup.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

If he's not willing to mobilize the military when another nation actually sets foot on their sovereign soil, I see no reason why anybody else should help.

Exactly !

Don't know how true / "official" the numbers are but I heard there are approximately 5-7 million firearms in the hands of their government and 1-2 in the hands of the civilian population .

I'm thinking if they had any balls at all , there'd be some dead ruskies by now .

 

[MisterChester]

If only the airports there had gun-free zones this would have never happened!

 

[88GT]

Okay, I am clearly in need of a primer on this issue as it is painfully obvious I am not as up to speed as I thought I was. Does anybody have any good links that would take me through this? I know I could search the news history, but that could be so hodge podge, I'm afraid I might end up more confused. I need a timeline with names.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Anybody think Putin is doing this because he's still pissed about the Russian hockey team not getting the gold?

 

[mrjarrell]

Okay, I am clearly in need of a primer on this issue as it is painfully obvious I am not as up to speed as I thought I was. Does anybody have any good links that would take me through this? I know I could search the news history, but that could be so hodge podge, I'm afraid I might end up more confused. I need a timeline with names.

Try this thread. It's pretty timeline efficient and there's no mention on neo-Nazis.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...on/334598-things-picking-back-up-ukraine.html