Disgruntled 1911 Owner...

[joshuametivier]

What do you think?.. : I recently bought a Springfield Range Officer. I like it alot as it is, but as I am I can't leave well enough alone. So.. I shopped at Wilson Combat for some upgraded "drop-in" parts. Among them A reduced power hammer spring to above all things lighten the trigger pull. When I got the spring side by side to the hammer spring that came in the Range Officer I noticed the Wilson Combat spring was about 5mm longer than the other one. I tried to install it and was unable to get the mainspring housing flush with magwell to effectively insert the mainspring housing pin... I called Wilson Combat and was informed that this is not unusual and that I should compress the spring I bought from them for a period of time to "condition" it before inserting it. I did so leaving the spring compressed in a vice for hours. Then I tried again with the same results I had initially: mainspring housing just a hair off from fitting. So?.. I cut one single revolution off the spring and wha-la. it fits. I re-assembled the gun and tested everything out numerous times.. It works, but I am totally frustrated that I had to modify a Wilson Combat spring to get it to fit in my gun.. should I have done this?

 

[Gamez235]

Yes! Very few parts in 1911's just drop in. While simple in design, they do require that everything work in perfect or very close to it harmony. Welcome to the art of the 1911. Yeah the Wilson package says, Drop In Installation, but it really means.. yeah, it will drop in with some minor to serious tweaking, modification, and/or grinding some clearance.

 

[gglass]

The Wilson should fit just fine as it was. The 1911 platform is kinda like building with legos... They all just match. (At least in theory. )

Just an FYI. To reduce the trigger pull on a 1911, it is more about geometry of the parts than about spring weights. A quick once over with a stone on your hammer and sear, and you would have a completely different trigger. If you had to do anything with springs, your sear spring will have much more effect on the trigger weight and you won't risk light primer strikes.

All of the above suggestions should be done by a qualified gunsmith.

 

[joshuametivier]

I certainly achieved a lighter trigger pull with the reduced power hammer spring as the Wilson Combat description advertised it would. Ed Brown has a product that includes upgraded sear with shaving tool and complete guide to the perfect trigger job which I also have. I understand the importance of geometry in relationship to trigger jobs. This is about the spring and its difference in length to the spring that came in the gun.

 

[gglass]

To answer your specific question... The Wilson Combat spring is exactly the size it needs to be. The issue is the internal lock on the Springfield MSH, which means that the spring has to be shorter to accommodate the locking function. That is the part that is non-standard. If you replace the hammer spring on a Springfield, you must also replace all of the internals of the MSH as well. This gets rid of the locking function of the Springfield MSH, but it converts it to and industry standard component. You can purchase another (virgin) Wilson hammer spring, a standard mainspring cap and a standard mainspring retainer pin, and you should be good to go.

I would still expect that light primer strikes may be in the future of your 1911. By removing coils from an already lighter weight spring, you just don't know what kind of strength the spring now has.

Have fun and be safe.

 

[Kick]

To answer your specific question... The Wilson Combat spring is exactly the size it needs to be. The issue is the internal lock on the Springfield MSH, which means that the spring has to be shorter to accommodate the locking function. That is the part that is non-standard. If you replace the hammer spring on a Springfield, you must also replace all of the internals of the MSH as well. This gets rid of the locking function of the Springfield MSH, but it converts it to and industry standard component. You can purchase another (virgin) Wilson hammer spring, a standard mainspring cap and a standard mainspring retainer pin, and you should be good to go.

I would still expect that light primer strikes may be in the future of your 1911. By removing coils from an already lighter weight spring, you just don't know what kind of strength the spring now has.

Have fun and be safe.

THIS.


I did not wish switch over to a lighter hammer spring but, I did not like the lock on Springfield's MSH. I ordered "mainspring housing rebuild kits" from Brownell's for my TRP and my Operator. Later, I also just went ahead and ordered the Smith and Alexender "maguide" (one piece magwell and MSH) and installed that on both as well.

It did not require any fitting and it fits very well.

 

[ghitch75]

what # of main spring did you get?....anything lighter the a 23# you will have to put in a heavier recoil spring to keep from slammin' the slide with full power 230g loads....as the main spring and recoil spring control the slide.....btw to get a better trigger pull work on the sear and hammer shelfs.....a factory Colt leaf spring does wonders too..and 1 more thing...watch the over travel a full auto 1911 can get you or others KILLED!!!...there is more than just changin' springs to make a safe and reliable 1911 .

 

[IndyGunner]

 

[joshuametivier]

I added full length guiderod, shok-buff, and 18 1/2 lb spring in addition the #19 hammer spring. I took it out with 230 HB and shot 100 rounds with no malfunctions of any sort. The problem amounted to the trigger pull being too light (due to my ignorant modification of cutting a coil off the spring when it wouldnt fit) resulting in frequent double tap type shots. I hadnt previously adjusted over travel. regardless i replaced original spring and will think prudently before doing things like that again. joshua

 

[ghitch75]

I added full length guiderod, shok-buff, and 18 1/2 lb spring in addition the #19 hammer spring. I took it out with 230 HB and shot 100 rounds with no malfunctions of any sort. The problem amounted to the trigger pull being too light (due to my ignorant modification of cutting a coil off the spring when it wouldnt fit) resulting in frequent double tap type shots. I hadnt previously adjusted over travel. regardless i replaced original spring and will think prudently before doing things like that again. joshua

glad you got it runnin' .....keep any eye on that shok-buffer....seen them come apart and jam the gun up tight.....then you have to get out the deadblow hammer and beat the slide off...

 

[IndyGunner]

Tell your gun happy 100th birthday, it might just be mad at you.

 

[dom1104]

People cant just leave a good gun alone!

1. Buy the 1911.
2. Shoot it a lot.
3. If you want a better trigger, send it to a gunsmith, we have WORLD CLASS ones right here on Ingo and in town....
4. Shoot it some more.

A lot of the "unreliability" of 1911 guns is because people buy them, and do this herpa-derp part swapping and coil clipping and spring balancing....

Cant we just all shoot our guns!?

/rant off.

I am just tired of people coming in, saying

Guy: "I will never buy another <Insert 1911 brand>, I had a lot of trouble with it"
Me: "Was it stock?"
Guy: "No I switched out <insert 15 Wilson or Ed brown parts from Midway USA>"
Me: "Well then it wasnt really the brands problem was it?"

 

[IndyGunner]

BAHAH!!! Herpa derp!!! LOL youre getting rep for that good sir.

 

[joshuametivier]

absolutely nothing wrong with the gun. I LOVE my 1911. Its a narrow view to implicate that somehow I have lost respect for someone(s) up the line to herpies derp, or whatever you called it that I might do to my gun. I love shooting. I love it so much that when I feel there might be an oppurtunity to improve the experience I take it. Yeah I was annoyed that the part didnt install, but that by no means obligates me to bow humbly to the designers and makers of these parts and guns as if I had no business messing with them. You go on with your austere reverence and remain par for the course. No one will notice.

 

[IndyGunner]

HERPES DERP!!!

 

[Drail]

Be aware that reducing the poundage of the mainspring has a great effect on slide velocity. The slide is slowed down by cocking the hammer back. By lightening the force required to cock the hammer the slide is hitting the frame with more energy when fired. There is a reason Browning chose that heavy spring under the hammer. You can switch to a heavier recoil spring to counteract this but then the slide will return forward and slam into the barrel lugs with more force and batter them and also will cause the muzzle to dip down more when it returns to battery. A 1911 is a carefully balanced system. If you want to lighten the trigger pull you need to alter the angles and the finish of the sear and hammer hooks and adjust the sear spring. There's a lot more going on here than most people think. And actually changing only the mainspring will not reduce the trigger pull very much. There are no parts on a 1911 (or most other firearms) that will actually "drop in".

 

[OVER THE HILL GUY]

one word......GLOCK !!!!

 

[gglass]

one word......GLOCK !!!!

Wow! 2 posts, and both are negative toward the 1911 and gushing over the Glock.

Maybe someone should step away from their Kool-Aid.

 

[joshuametivier]

sheesh. this discussion goes on. sear sear sear.. yes I know. If you read the description on a hammer spring from wilson combat it's clear that a reduced power hammer spring does lighten trigger pull, and from my experience it was dramatic. they wouldnt be sold if they werent meant to be used. this is all a learning process and i most definitely endorse exploring the in's and outs of any pistol you own and use. you should be intuitive with your firearms. they deserve as much from you. refining the sear has a great effect on the triggers break as much as it lightens it. I'm aware of that. why is there so much touchiness about this?

ps- still no malfunctions of any sort.

 

[bwframe]

...why is there so much touchiness about this?

Cause the 1911 is a precision machine, compared to some others.

GLOCK !!!!