Do We Even Still Have A Democracy?

[Ingomike]

“Theoretically, we live in a democracy. Schools then and now keep saying America is a democracy, and our federal constitution and all our state constitutions say we are a democracy. But today, the actual structure of our federal government and of all our state governments violates all those constitutions, so democracy is effectively dead.”

“The US Constitution provides in Article 1 Section 1:”

All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

“This says in very plain words that all of the federal government’s legislative powers are vested in Congress. That means no person or institution has any power to make a federal law except Congress. Hence, no one can enact federal law except the people’s elected representatives. That is the constitutional guarantee of the representative form of democracy in the federal legislative branch.”

“Question: Which branch of the federal and state governments contains the bureaucracy? Answer: The bureaucracy is in the executive branch.”

“So, all those laws made under the guise of “administrative regulations” are made in the executive branch. What a gross violation of both federal and state constitutions and the separation of powers doctrine!”

Do We Have A Democracy?

The issue of whether the USA is a democracy continues to arise. The simple truth is: No, the USA is not a democracy, not even a representative democracy, although it once was. That needs to change if America is to survive. Theoretically, we live i...

www.americanthinker.com

 

[BigRed]

I'll add we no longer have a representative republic either.

Don't know if I've ever mentioned it before, but I'm for dissolving it and having the States revoke their delegate authorities.

 

[Ingomike]

I'll add we no longer have a representative republic either.

Don't know if I've ever mentioned it before, but I'm for dissolving it and having the States revoke their delegate authorities.

Did you read the article? They discussed this point.

“For this to seem plausible, one must understand that democracy comes in two flavors, usually denominated “direct” and “representative.” A direct democracy is a government in which the people governed actually do decide all the issues of all three branches of government, legislative, executive, and judicial, in a big conclave or some such arrangement (e.g., old-style Vermont town halls). Obviously, this is not feasible where the people governed number in the millions.”

 

[BigRed]

Did you read the article? They discussed this point.

“For this to seem plausible, one must understand that democracy comes in two flavors, usually denominated “direct” and “representative.” A direct democracy is a government in which the people governed actually do decide all the issues of all three branches of government, legislative, executive, and judicial, in a big conclave or some such arrangement (e.g., old-style Vermont town halls). Obviously, this is not feasible where the people governed number in the millions.”

Indeed.

If Liberty is to survive, it needs to be dissolved.

 

[Amishman44]

It's interesting that, while not in the Constitution itself, but rather in the Declaration of Independence, that the 'People', have the right to revolt and over-through a government that has become "destructive of individual rights [life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"], when the very Constitution that elected representatives take an oath to uphold and protect (aka, follow and obey) designates the government as the "protector" of individual citizenship rights!

The right to revolt:​

The idea that people have the right to overthrow their government has a long and complex history, stretching back at least to the ancient Greeks and Romans. In the modern era, the idea has been most closely associated with the philosophy of classical liberalism, which emphasizes individual rights and limited government.

The idea of the right to revolt was famously articulated in the Declaration of Independence, which declared that “whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends [life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness], it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government.”

The Declaration went on to argue that “when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.”

It is worth noting that the right to revolution is not an unlimited right. The Declaration of Independence makes it clear that it should only be exercised in extreme circumstances, when a government has become “destructive” and has engaged in a “long train of abuses and usurpations.”

The Declaration of Independence says we have the right to overthrow the government | Learn Liberty

The right to overthrow a government remains an important principle to uphold, as it serves as a check on government power. It is a reminder that governments ...

www.learnliberty.org

 

[Ingomike]

It's interesting that, while not in the Constitution itself, but rather in the Declaration of Independence, that the 'People', have the right to revolt and over-through a government that has become "destructive of individual rights [life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"], when the very Constitution that elected representatives take an oath to uphold and protect (aka, follow and obey) designates the government as the "protector" of individual citizenship rights!

The right to revolt:​

The idea that people have the right to overthrow their government has a long and complex history, stretching back at least to the ancient Greeks and Romans. In the modern era, the idea has been most closely associated with the philosophy of classical liberalism, which emphasizes individual rights and limited government.

The idea of the right to revolt was famously articulated in the Declaration of Independence, which declared that “whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends [life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness], it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government.”

The Declaration went on to argue that “when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.”

It is worth noting that the right to revolution is not an unlimited right. The Declaration of Independence makes it clear that it should only be exercised in extreme circumstances, when a government has become “destructive” and has engaged in a “long train of abuses and usurpations.”

The Declaration of Independence says we have the right to overthrow the government | Learn Liberty

The right to overthrow a government remains an important principle to uphold, as it serves as a check on government power. It is a reminder that governments ...

www.learnliberty.org

The problem is that 10% are the match and 40% are the fuel equaling 52%+ and are driving government. It’s not like just 10% are government. We are living tyranny of the majority…

 

[firecadet613]

It's interesting that, while not in the Constitution itself, but rather in the Declaration of Independence, that the 'People', have the right to revolt and over-through a government that has become "destructive of individual rights [life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"], when the very Constitution that elected representatives take an oath to uphold and protect (aka, follow and obey) designates the government as the "protector" of individual citizenship rights!

The right to revolt:​

The idea that people have the right to overthrow their government has a long and complex history, stretching back at least to the ancient Greeks and Romans. In the modern era, the idea has been most closely associated with the philosophy of classical liberalism, which emphasizes individual rights and limited government.

The idea of the right to revolt was famously articulated in the Declaration of Independence, which declared that “whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends [life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness], it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government.”

The Declaration went on to argue that “when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.”

It is worth noting that the right to revolution is not an unlimited right. The Declaration of Independence makes it clear that it should only be exercised in extreme circumstances, when a government has become “destructive” and has engaged in a “long train of abuses and usurpations.”

The Declaration of Independence says we have the right to overthrow the government | Learn Liberty

The right to overthrow a government remains an important principle to uphold, as it serves as a check on government power. It is a reminder that governments ...

www.learnliberty.org

We're long past that point.

That said, nothing will happen and TPTB know that. In all of human history, no one has ever had it as good as we do today. With all the BS going on, most still have it to good to risk it all. So, we will continue to be like a frog in a pot of water that's slowly heating up...

 

[Amishman44]

We're long past that point.

That said, nothing will happen and TPTB know that. In all of human history, no one has ever had it as good as we do today. With all the BS going on, most still have it to good to risk it all. So, we will continue to be like a frog in a pot of water that's slowly heating up...

The problem is, it's all a deception...and too many are buying into it as they would rather have 'comfort' and 'warmth' rather than truth and reality!

 

[Ingomike]

The problem is, it's all a deception...and too many are buying into it as they would rather have 'comfort' and 'warmth' rather than truth and reality!

Dare I say it, they are consumed with normalcy bias…

 

[Libertarian01]

Just a minor point of clarification that illustrates the author Molly Slag to be extremely ignorant, the federal constitution does NOT call us a democracy. That word does not appear anywhere in the constitution at all. We are now a democratic republic, and always have been (Articles of Confederation not included.)

And neither does the word "democracy" appear ANYWHERE in the constitutions of the founding 13 colonies. I even looked at Indiana's constitution, and "Nope," not their either.

So poor, dear Molly starts her article by stating a lie that just ain't so, and never was. Then she goes on to bemoan the horror of losing something that, well, never really was.

Does our system have problems? Of course it does. Do we have bureaucratic overreach? Of course we do. But this doesn't mean the bureaucracy should have no interpretive powers.

Could you imagine any sort of governmental system presumptive of liberty that would require those who write the laws to cover every imaginable detail of the law? That would be insane and unwieldy. Imagine the simple idea of limiting hunting to a specific "hunting season." How, exactly, would the legislature define "hunting?" If it doesn't include using a blowgun to kill could I get away with the very act they are trying to deter?

The bureaucracy can be limited by the legislature course correcting of the courts yanking its chain.

Note also that dear Molly while gnashing her teeth about all of our problems doesn't shed light on a better system. She doesn't propose that we change to how things are done in France, or Nigeria, or Japan, or Nicaragua.

Molly Slag seems to be ignorant of the fact that a "pure" democracy of the people = rule of the mob. This is one of the reasons our founding fathers in their wisdom avoided that avenue of governance.

Yes, we have a bad system, except when compared to all the rest.

Regards,

Doug

 

[DragonGunner]

My opinion: We are suppose to be a Republic not a democracy. However the Republic is about, if not all together gone. Replaced by a democracy about 100 years ago and slowly getting worse. “No democracy in history has ever lasted for very long. It slowly wastes itself away and in the end commits suicide.” John Adams (best I can remember that quote.) This is why the forefathers didn’t want a democracy, but rather a Republic. But everybody now calls it a democracy, and although it’s not suppose to be, we accepted it. Wasn’t it Benjamin Franklin that said, “I give you a Republic, if you can keep it.”

 

[tim87tr]

Indeed.

If Liberty is to survive, it needs to be dissolved.

While I agree, I don't think the chances of this occuring are very good. Therefore a continued erosion of freedoms will likely occur and I'm curious what you think about that likely outcome?

It's a general outlook question as although I detested what has transpired the last few years, l continue to exercise my freedoms and enjoy my life. The way I see people losing their freedoms is continuing to do what they're told.

 

[BigRed]

While I agree, I don't think the chances of this occuring are very good. Therefore a continued erosion of freedoms will likely occur and I'm curious what you think about that likely outcome?

It's a general outlook question as although I detested what has transpired the last few years, l continue to exercise my freedoms and enjoy my life. The way I see people losing their freedoms is continuing to do what they're told.

In general, the world I live in today resembles little of the world I grew up in. The world my grandchildren will grow up in will look even more foreign, I suspect. The whole scamdemic was a good example of how little Liberty is valued.

Sadly, it seems most sheep have no idea what is going on...I expect most will march along as told until they are on the slaughterhouse floor. Hopefully, I am wrong.

I too continue to exercise my individual Liberty....the "law" of state be damned.

For the few who do cherish Liberty, may Providence bless you greatly.

 

[Ingomike]

Just a minor point of clarification that illustrates the author Molly Slag to be extremely ignorant, the federal constitution does NOT call us a democracy. That word does not appear anywhere in the constitution at all. We are now a democratic republic, and always have been (Articles of Confederation not included.)

And neither does the word "democracy" appear ANYWHERE in the constitutions of the founding 13 colonies. I even looked at Indiana's constitution, and "Nope," not their either.

So poor, dear Molly starts her article by stating a lie that just ain't so, and never was. Then she goes on to bemoan the horror of losing something that, well, never really was.

Did you actually read and absorb what “dear Molly” said?

“Theoretically, we live in a democracy. Schools then and now keep saying America is a democracy, and our federal constitution and all our state constitutions say we are a democracy. But today, the actual structure of our federal government and of all our state governments violates all those constitutions, so democracy is effectively dead.”

“Let me explain.”

“The phrase in the Declaration of Independence about governments deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed affirms men’s right to self-government, implemented via “democracy,” a term that connotes “government by the people.” Taken literally, the term “democracy” implies that the people subject to the government actually govern themselves for their votes decide all the issues of government.”

As I read it she doesn’t say the word democracy in in the constitutions but that they describe what we today call “democracy“.

 

[Ingomike]

In general, the world I live in today resembles little of the world I grew up in. The world my grandchildren will grow up in will look even more foreign, I suspect. The whole scamdemic was a good example of how little Liberty is valued.

Sadly, it seems most sheep have no idea what is going on...I expect most will march along as told until they are on the slaughterhouse floor. Hopefully, I am wrong.

I too continue to exercise my individual Liberty....the "law" of state be damned.

For the few who do cherish Liberty, may Providence bless you greatly.

The freedoms we have enjoyed through our lives are the outlier not the norm…

 

[BigRed]

The freedoms we have enjoyed through our lives are the outlier not the norm…

And?

 

[indyblue]

The freedoms we have enjoyed through our lives are the outlier not the norm…

Wasn't that the whole point of the USA from the beginning (and why most of the rest of the world hates us and want us to be more like them)?

 

[Ingomike]

And?

The odds of burning it down and restarting do not favor the new situation being more freedom…

 

[asevans]

We will soon be a third world country.

 

[smokingman]

Did you actually read and absorb what “dear Molly” said?

“Theoretically, we live in a democracy. Schools then and now keep saying America is a democracy,

I went to high school in the early 1990s. If you called the USA a democracy my senior year government teacher would start yelling. We learned it was a republic, at least at my rural high school.

I have never thought of the USA as a democracy because I understand the difference.

By the authors standard China is a democracy. It has a constitution and elections.