Do you Really Think It's a gun Problem? - Psychiatric Drugs and Violence

[Areoflyer09]

Depression is an interesting topic. Each person reacts differently to each medication option, hence the trying different options. Also why banning anyone on them from guns won’t work. Medication A may work well enough to get by, while medication B is more effective without as many side effects, but medication C could make things worse.

Imagine the lawsuits from losing one’s rights because a doctor picked the wrong medication. It’s also a slippery slope. Today it’s bipolar, tomorrow it’s depression after that we add anyone on ADD or ADHD meds. There should be a method to help those with mental/emotional issues, but a ban list based on medication isn’t the best route. Too many variables at play with that route.


I did Zoloft for almost ten years. It took the lows off the low points, controlling the depression, but it also took the highs off the high. Middle school through the starting of college have some of the least memorable memories for me, simply due to the lack of emotional response I was capablae of on the medication. I was very indifferent to majority of things. Sophmore year of college I switched to Lexapro, one of the best changes I’ve done. The indifference wasn’t present anymore and for the first time I was able to learn to monitor and manage the impulses and depressive tendencies. Within two years of that switch I was able to come off of the medication. In the 5 years since I’ve had one stint bad enough that I asked for a new prescription and that during a prolonged medical issues that was getting worse despite treatment efforts. I knew the signs and I knew where that road lead and I didn’t want to go back.

I won’t say that everyone can overcome their depression, I’d like to believe they can, because no two cases are the same. I do believe that with proper medication, support & desire a person could at least minimize the quantity of medication needed. I also believe that majority of people have no idea how to cope with others that emotional or mental health issues.

 

[HoughMade]

Did you guys know that people who take heart medications are more likely to have heart problems than those who never have?

Scary, but true.

 

[Areoflyer09]

I did not know that. Instills the upmost confidence in our health system.

 

[BugI02]

I have two problems with the direction of discussion around this issue

The first and biggest is, none of the restrictions enacted or talked about would have changed any of the last couple years of carnage even slightly. The one exception might have been if they had actually correctly processed Dylann Roof's background check. I see no calls for the FBI to actually follow up on reports made to it about individuals being a danger, perhaps they should pull some resources away from less productive pursuits (Russia! Russia! Russia!) and actually investigate these instances. That being said, the only way so called "gun control" could make a difference in these instances is if there are drastically fewer guns in the hands of citizens, essentially confiscation. Otherwise, if the next maniac can't buy the guns he wants but can easily do a B&E or burglary and steal them, you can only hope the homeowner ends the potential threat during the theft. Everyone needs to understand that what the left means by "common sense gun control" is or will be confiscation

Second, I don't think you can stop at restricting someones second amendment rights if they're on meds and think you have solved the problem. Several discussions on this board have dealt with people ramming into crowds with vehicles. These people are able to accomplish mass murder without a gun, so what then. Do we restrict the right of people on psychoactive medication to hold a drivers license? When you start down the road of losing rights because of the mere suspicion that
you are not quite right, two things will happen. Fewer people will seek help because the price in freedom is too high, and whatever is given up will never be enough

Unfortunately, this murder is just like many before it. It will be played as heartless, but we cannot give an inch

 

[T.Lex]

Did you guys know that people who take heart medications are more likely to have heart problems than those who never have?

Scary, but true.

Wait.

Hold up.

That means that people who wear contacts... might actually have a higher incidence of vision problems?

 

[KittySlayer]

Did you guys know that people who take heart medications are more likely to have heart problems than those who never have?

Scary, but true.

Taking medical advice from a lawyer is like diagnosing yourself with cancer by using the internet.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Taking medical advice from a lawyer is like diagnosing yourself with cancer by using the internet.

Yeah but attorneys know the dirty **** the ' medical professionals ' won't tell you .

 

[T.Lex]

Yeah but attorneys know the dirty **** the ' medical professionals ' won't tell you .

If you want to know all about side effects and all the stuff that can go wrong in a medical procedure, ask a malpractice defense attorney.

If only INGO had a resource like that....

 

[KittySlayer]

If you want to know all about side effects and all the stuff that can go wrong in a medical procedure, ask a malpractice defense attorney.

If only INGO had a resource like that....

I'll ask my wife, the surgical nurse. All the RN's have a list of which doctors they will not let operate on them and which anesthesiologist to avoid.

 

[HoughMade]

Wait.

Hold up.

That means that people who wear contacts... might actually have a higher incidence of vision problems?

And people who take Tylenol or aspirin have a higher instance of headaches.

If you want to know all about side effects and all the stuff that can go wrong in a medical procedure, ask a malpractice defense attorney.

If only INGO had a resource like that....

If only.

 

[MarkC]

I am gratified that some members have chosen to share their personal and family experiences here; to seek mental health treatment before one is completely off the rails and in crisis takes some guts, given that there is still a stigma surrounding mental illness. Although I am not a doctor, it also seems that mental health issues are particularly hard to treat in many cases.

However, correlation is not causation, and I think the OP has a chicken-and-egg issue going on here. I, for one, don't believe that it was the treatment for the underlying issue that caused the behavior. Isn't it more likely the mental health problems the shooters suffered, problems so apparent and serious that the shooter (or the shooter's family) sought treatment?

 

[HenryWallace]

I am gratified that some members have chosen to share their personal and family experiences here; to seek mental health treatment before one is completely off the rails and in crisis takes some guts, given that there is still a stigma surrounding mental illness. Although I am not a doctor, it also seems that mental health issues are particularly hard to treat in many cases.

However, correlation is not causation, and I think the OP has a chicken-and-egg issue going on here. I, for one, don't believe that it was the treatment for the underlying issue that caused the behavior. Isn't it more likely the mental health problems the shooters suffered, problems so apparent and serious that the shooter (or the shooter's family) sought treatment?

I do normally go after the root causes, which in this case are more likely society problems. We live too close, we interact in ways we don't want to, we don't eat or exercise correctly.
There are true horrors that we have to deal with on a daily basis that our parents and their parents wouldn't have ever conceived. Mostly due to the lifestyles they had vs. ours. Not to say that things are better or worse, just different.
My basis is inside of my own life. It's inside of my own experience.
My issue with the DRUGS are that the Medical Industrial Complex seems to make money on our "Sicknesses". Mental health problems exist, but it may be completely different reasons for them than an actual CHEMICAL IMBALANCE.

My root cause in this issue is that nearly 1/4 of The US's GDP relates directly to healthcare. Think about that! Around 18 percent of the Gross Domestic Product relates to we the people being sick!

Sorry y'all wrong chart.

 

[Areoflyer09]

I am gratified that some members have chosen to share their personal and family experiences here; to seek mental health treatment before one is completely off the rails and in crisis takes some guts, given that there is still a stigma surrounding mental illness. Although I am not a doctor, it also seems that mental health issues are particularly hard to treat in many cases.

However, correlation is not causation, and I think the OP has a chicken-and-egg issue going on here. I, for one, don't believe that it was the treatment for the underlying issue that caused the behavior. Isn't it more likely the mental health problems the shooters suffered, problems so apparent and serious that the shooter (or the shooter's family) sought treatment?

I got lucky in that my mom has her PhD in Education Admin specializing in special education. She saw the signs of my depression and got me the help I needed.

I agree that the treatment isn’t the cause of the behavior.

From experience a treatment that the body has built a tolerance to can fail to work, but that not creating the behavior. I don’t doubt that a wrong medication could have a negative reaction amplify the condition, but that’s not causing it either.

 

[Areoflyer09]

I do normally go after the root causes, which in this case are more likely society problems. We live too close, we interact in ways we don't want to, we don't eat or exercise correctly.
There are true horrors that we have to deal with on a daily basis that our parents and their parents wouldn't have ever conceived. Mostly due to the lifestyles they had vs. ours. Not to say that things are better or worse, just different.
My basis is inside of my own life. It's inside of my own experience.
My issue with the DRUGS are that the Medical Industrial Complex seems to make money on our "Sicknesses". Mental health problems exist, but it may be completely different reasons for them than an actual CHEMICAL IMBALANCE.

My root cause in this issue is that nearly 1/3 of The US's GDP relates directly to healthcare. Think about that! Around 30% percent of the Gross Domestic Product relates to we the people being sick!

I don’t follow.

You talk about the GDP but use a graph of he federal spending.

Healthcare accounted for 17.8% of he GDP in 2016.
https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statis...endData/NationalHealthAccountsHistorical.html

 

[rob63]

Did you guys know that people who take heart medications are more likely to have heart problems than those who never have?

Scary, but true.

I am gratified that some members have chosen to share their personal and family experiences here; to seek mental health treatment before one is completely off the rails and in crisis takes some guts, given that there is still a stigma surrounding mental illness. Although I am not a doctor, it also seems that mental health issues are particularly hard to treat in many cases.

However, correlation is not causation, and I think the OP has a chicken-and-egg issue going on here. I, for one, don't believe that it was the treatment for the underlying issue that caused the behavior. Isn't it more likely the mental health problems the shooters suffered, problems so apparent and serious that the shooter (or the shooter's family) sought treatment?

I can't speak for the op, but my recommendation is not based upon a misunderstanding that the medications are causing the disease. Honestly, I am surprised that anyone even thought that, thus I didn't address it.

I am merely suggesting that there is reason to believe that if a person is taking these types of medications, that might be considered as evidence that person shouldn't be purchasing guns.

I knew when first suggesting it that it wouldn't go anywhere, there are genuine problems with the idea, plus, there are valid reasons not to compromise. However, if we continue to insist that the only options are bans on guns or regular school shootings, then we can't very well complain when the public at large chooses gun bans.

Another way of looking at it... if you had a gun for sale in the INGO classifieds and you knew a potential purchaser was on these medications would you go through with the sale?

I have nothing but positive wishes for anyone dealing with such problems. I have witnessed it first hand and know the pain all too well. I have no desire to deny anyone their rights. I acknowledge up front that my proposal is, in fact, doing exactly that. I don't like it. I'm just considering options in a public forum. If everyone would prefer to discuss heart medications I can do that too.

 

[CindyE]

Second, I don't think you can stop at restricting someones second amendment rights if they're on meds and think you have solved the problem. Several discussions on this board have dealt with people ramming into crowds with vehicles. These people are able to accomplish mass murder without a gun, so what then. Do we restrict the right of people on psychoactive medication to hold a drivers license? When you start down the road of losing rights because of the mere suspicion that
you are not quite right, two things will happen. Fewer people will seek help because the price in freedom is too high, and whatever is given up will never be enough

Unfortunately, this murder is just like many before it. It will be played as heartless, but we cannot give an inch

Agree with THIS 100%

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Are the psychiatric drugs only available in the United States? Who are we kidding? We're the only first world nation in the world that seems to have this problem. My inclination is that these instances would, like most killings, be dismissed as a crazy person acting out. There are plenty of instances, worldwide, where crazy people "acting out," so that wouldn't be uncommon. The difference IS the guns. A crazy person with an AR IS going to kill more people, typically, than a crazy person with a knife, or even most handgun. We should, as gun owners, admit and accept this. But we don't make laws based on what might happen. We don't or shouldn't hinder people's abilities at self-defense. If I'm a sane person, and I believe I need an AR-15 to protect me and mine, there should be no prohibition based on other people's fear of what could happen. We don't punish pre-crime.

But what "sensible measures" are you willing to accept, what hoops are you willing to jump through to get that AR?

We are a different nation. We have a 2A that specifically protects that right and thank you God almighty that those that insisted on the Bill of Rights be added to the Constitution won out because without that language, no telling where we'd be by now. Check that, I know where we'd be by now...defenseless from faster, stronger, younger, criminals that can over power many of us. People keep harping on this but let's not forget that hand, fists, and feet account for more homicides in this country than ALL rifles of which ARs are a subset. Let's keep things in perspective and rather than caving on their basis for gun control arguments, counter with our own reason and logic.

 

[Mgderf]

I do appreciate the comments above. Point well taken.
I still have to ask, of the mass shooters and mass killers that we know the identity of, which of them were not on prescribed psychiatric medications? Or how about this? Who has mass killed innocents in cold blood and not been on anti depressants, SSRI's, or anti psychotics?

By the way Lithium is in itself a base element on the periodic table. I'm talking about lab created drugs, granted I'm sure they chemically adjust the lithium.

Why is Everything that I see out here online related to mass murder (And I do have to assume that Big Pharma wouldn't like the negative press) seemingly linked to these medications?

Just speaking on my personal experience, my brother and I were best friends growing up and his life changed intensely the month that he started on his treatments for Bi-Polarity, ADHD, and Manic Depression. He was just 14 at the time. He killed himself 10 years later while taking 46 pills 13 different meds each and every day. He had a wife, a great job, a future, and a close knit family.

As is lead.
Have you ever heard the term, "Mad as a Hatter"?

I understand your argument, but as others have said, all drugs affect everyone differently.
I just read a report the other day telling parents to closely watch children and young adults who have been prescribed Tamiflu'
Seems some users are experiencing confusion and should be scrutinized when first taking the drug.

I believe this problem, if we can call it that, is about chemical imbalances in individual brains.
C.I.A. experiments back in the day proved people can do weird things when subjected to certain drugs, but others subjected to the same doses may show no ill affect.
Psychotropic drugs may very well have some role, but it is not the drug, as much as the brain subjected to it.

 

[HenryWallace]

As is lead.
Have you ever heard the term, "Mad as a Hatter?

Yes but I believe that was Mercury.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Did you guys know that people who take heart medications are more likely to have heart problems than those who never have?

Scary, but true.

Does this mean that if I quit taking my Coreg and Lisinopril my chances of having heart problems would be reduced?