Do you return fire?

[SkullDaddy.45]

Was reading about the NYPD shooting two innocent women by mistake. Made me think, if you and your wife were enjoying the night while walking around in Anytown , indiana, and a police officer begins to open fire at you and your wife, do you return fire? And in Indiana, would you be just in doing so?

 

[HoughMade]

Too many variables.

But I will say that in a situation like the NYPD shooting, if you are an unintended victim in the background, I can not believe "returning fire" would be a good idea....or legally justified.

 

[churchmouse]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^Agree^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You may want to but it would not end well for you.

 

[jake blue]

What was the provocation for the NY shooting? Were the two women innocent bystanders who wandered into crossfire or were they the intended targets? There's not really enough information to make a judgement call but I'd think if the police officers are readily identifiable as law enforcement then returning fire is only going to get you in trouble.

 

[superjoe76]

I have asked myself the same question. I am assuming you mean a uniformed officer? Do you allow him to kill people or risk the responding officers taking it out on you if you did kill him? Even if you were 100% justified, the immediate response from cops would be brutal I am sure.

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

I guess that's what I was getting at, if your the cops at that point in time it's two women wandering into the crossfire, if your the women at that time there is two cops opening fire at you. I guess my question should if been, if you we're one of the two people caught in the middle, and your armed. Do you return fire to protect yourself and your loved ones?

 

[HoughMade]

My questions is: in the NYPD situation, would returning fire have accomplished anything? It was over in a few seconds. It was not a prolonged engagement. By the time you could return fire, the cops would have been done with the injures caused. Firing back would do nothing.....except get you killed or in prison for a long time at best, or forever if your aim is too good.

 

[jake blue]

In terms of protecting oneself and one's loved ones, duck and cover first, then assess the situation whether return fire is justified. Returning fire isn't a protective response and as HoughMade said it's probably all over by the time you'd have responded anyways.

 

[jake blue]

If you wandered into a crossfire, it should be pretty obvious because after you duck and cover there will continue to be gunfire. Standing your ground and drawing on the police will probably get you shot in the back when the intended targets take aim at the police through you.

 

[TheSpark]

If you truly did not know who was shooting at you and you returned fire and lived to tell about it I don't see you being in any legal trouble. If you know it is the police though you should not return fire and get on the ground to show you surrender. The police should then immediately stop shooting at you.

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

If you wandered into a crossfire, it should be pretty obvious because after you duck and cover there will continue to be gunfire. Standing your ground and drawing on the police will probably get you shot in the back when the intended targets take aim at the police through you.

But for these women it wasn't obvious, they didn't have time to duck and cover, they were shot!, I guess if no one was hit the situation isn't so dire. But if your wife or you gets hit with the first bullet, do you care who's throwing the next three or four at you?

 

[jake blue]

I had to go look up an article about the NY incident and the cops acted totally ignorantly by firing into a crowd the way they did. I guess it is harder to defend yourself when the aggressor is the cops. Yet another reason I have no desire to visit NYC.

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

I had to go look up an article about the NY incident and the cops acted totally ignorantly by firing into a crowd the way they did. I guess it is harder to defend yourself when the aggressor is the cops. Yet another reason I have no desire to visit NYC.

It's a tuff situation to find yourself in, and by no means I'm I advocating anyone shooting at a police officer. But I'm sure we all train to respond to gun fire coming our way, and to add a wife or other loved one being shot during the situation would only make the return fire twitch that much quicker. I still don't know what I would do. Avoiding NY is high on my list also.

 

[churchmouse]

This scenario has been discussed before. My answer is to get LEO more training. I have more training than the average LEO. That is not a knock on the average officer. Many treat there sidearm like we treated our English text book. Only touched or opened when absolutely required.

Get these guys trained. Hit what you are shooting at if possible. Do not open up on a crowd. So many things to look at.

 

[HoughMade]

If you truly did not know who was shooting at you and you returned fire and lived to tell about it I don't see you being in any legal trouble....

In this case, the police were in uniform. Do you still think you can draw and shoot as a first reaction and not face legal problems?

 

[ATM]

After the first negligent shots and a fast assessment, seeking cover if available, etc. if anyone continued sending rounds my way, I'd do whatever I could to stop the attack.

I love the responses that it wouldn't end well for me if it was a uniformed officer creating the carnage... as if continuing to be shot would be the more survivable option.

 

[churchmouse]

After the first negligent shots and a fast assessment, seeking cover if available, etc. if anyone continued sending rounds my way, I'd do whatever I could to stop the attack.

I love the responses that it wouldn't end well for me if it was a uniformed officer creating the carnage... as if continuing to be shot would be the more survivable option.

Yup, death gives little wiggle room.

I to would return fire if my loved ones were in harms way regardless of who was shooting in our direction. Especially if it was continuous. The ending badly part is just how things are these days.

 

[HoughMade]

OK- this is why I initially said: "Too many variables". Are we going to limit this to a hypothetical based on what actually happened in New York, or are we going to construct our own hypotheticals so we can justify shooting at police? Can I imagine such a circumastance? Yes....but not anything actually based on what happened in New York.

 

[ATM]

... Are we going to limit this to a hypothetical based on what actually happened in New York, or are we going to construct our own hypotheticals so we can justify shooting at police? ...

I gave my response to the question posed in the OP. I couldn't care less what happens in court (should I survive the ordeal), so I didn't opine on that part.

After my quick assessment, it would be best to not send any more rounds my way.

 

[IndianaLead]

Absolutely! I can't imagine any version of this situation where it would be advisable to return fire against uniformed officers. The polices tend to take extreme umbrage at being fired upon & tend to respond with prejudice. No way would that end well for you. Best bet in that kind of crappy situation would be "duck & cover" until they can ID you as a noncombatant.