Does DNR have an email address?

[Tom Threetoes]

I also think the season started way late this time. Two weeks ago the birds in were gobbling good in Warrick county not so much now. Temps in the mid 80s don't help either, I don't like the heat and the turkeys don't either. If the goal of the DNR is to reduce the harvest they're doing a good job. While I'm complaining about the DNR, the game bird habitat stamp is a joke! What have they done to improve habitat? Nothing in my neck of the woods.

 

[Willie]

I also think the season started way late this time. Two weeks ago the birds in were gobbling good in Warrick county not so much now. Temps in the mid 80s don't help either, I don't like the heat and the turkeys don't either. If the goal of the DNR is to reduce the harvest they're doing a good job. While I'm complaining about the DNR, the game bird habitat stamp is a joke! What have they done to improve habitat? Nothing in my neck of the woods.

^^^^
THIS

 

[Dirty Steve]

I started hunting or at least attempting to hunt turkey in Indiana in 1988. Back then we had to go all of the way down near Jefferson Proving Ground to hunt, let alone see a turkey. I would have to say that the notion that the season comes in too late has been my thought and what everyone has said for at least 80% of those attempted hunting seasons. It's a joke. Every once and a while the hunting is good for the first week, but beyond that, it has been my experience that it is a total waste of time. I will say that for whatever reason, I have had more success in Lawrence Co. than most other places. Likely that is related to habitat more than anything else. Even the places I have access to hunt in Lawrence Co have sucked more years than not after the first 2-3 days of season. I tell myself every year that I am not going to waste the money on a license next year, but still do. I think after this year I am going to stick to it.

Dirty Steve

 

[Willie]

I started hunting or at least attempting to hunt turkey in Indiana in 1988. Back then we had to go all of the way down near Jefferson Proving Ground to hunt, let alone see a turkey. I would have to say that the notion that the season comes in too late has been my thought and what everyone has said for at least 80% of those attempted hunting seasons. It's a joke. Every once and a while the hunting is good for the first week, but beyond that, it has been my experience that it is a total waste of time. I will say that for whatever reason, I have had more success in Lawrence Co. than most other places. Likely that is related to habitat more than anything else. Even the places I have access to hunt in Lawrence Co have sucked more years than not after the first 2-3 days of season. I tell myself every year that I am not going to waste the money on a license next year, but still do. I think after this year I am going to stick to it.

Dirty Steve

I killed one the very last day of the season three years ago. I hunted EVERY day and could not get a gobbler to commit. Finally on the last morning I had one picking by me at 50 yards and I laid him out. It was an ambush, not a turkey hunt..

 

[yetti462]

^^^^3 yrs ago was rough for me as well. Tagged out on the last Friday of season. Bushwacked a Tom as he fed by me. Sat on a field edge where he'd fly down and never made a call.

 

[phylodog]

My hunting partner killed one yesterday morning on our farm. We spotted a couple of them at the edge of a field and we were able to stalk within 40 yards for a shot. Six days at the farm and we heard one bird gobble. I'm not going to even bother going back out this year.

 

[gregr]

What I received from the IDNR:


[FONT=&amp]Thank you for your inquiry regarding spring turkey season dates in Indiana. Yes, we receive and respond to such inquiries which tend to increase in the first couple of years after we make a ‘calendar shift” from the earlier end of the framework to later end of the framework in the standardized season date framework developed in 1983. Since this is a busy time of year, I will give you the generally broad generic response to the issue. A couple things, you should recognize is that our turkey populations/spring harvests in Indiana and throughout the eastern US have dropped off, some places worse than others. How much of this drop remains the “new normal” remains to be seen and in the end, prevailing habitat conditions across the landscape will likely be the main determining factor. I will also attach a number of articles or publications related to this issue that might give you a more informed insight into some of the arguments, issues, and concerns. I have also attached the 2016 spring harvest report for Indiana that has a summary table toward the end of the report that shows the dates and harvests for the previous spring turkey seasons in Indiana since 1970. Also attached, is a section on the status of Indiana wild turkeys in the 2016 Annual Wildlife Science Report that documents some of the declines in turkey populations and harvest indices. Finally, before the responses below, for what it is worth at this point in the spring season, despite the inclement weather of opening weekend, the current harvest as of this morning is 500+ birds ahead of where the harvest was after opening weekend in 2016.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Some of this is part of my “generic’ response to what is an age old question that is the subject of many chatroom forums and debates but in the end, the turkey biology has not changed. I’m assuming you are an avid turkey hunter who is interested in the long term sustainable hunting opportunities and the science behind the decisions. Read what you care to and hopefully my response and the materials attached will give you more insight to what many think is a simple question.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]The southern states have undergone a progressive evolution toward earlier spring opening dates primarily because of political pressures rather than turkey biology. Now that progression has come under scrutiny and concern as turkey populations and harvests have undergone significant declines – see announcement from SEAFWA Directors. Much of the concern has grown from the ever increasing body of evidence accumulating from various studies in multiple states (e.g., OH,PA, WV, VA, MO, GA,SC, etc) since the late 1990’s showing increasing higher levels of accidental hen loss associated with progressively earlier spring season dates, higher than expected harvest rates of adult gobblers during the spring turkey seasons (e.g., KY averaged 65-68% gun-related mortality during the 10 years of spring hunting), and shifting demographics of the gobbler age structure that is likely influencing the normal breeding season success. I have attached a couple popular and portions of technical articles that touch on these issues. Consulting Whittaker et al’s the figure you will see that Indiana’s spring turkey season dates actually fall slightly on the early side of the strict theoretical & biologically supported dates for reducing accidental hen loss. The ever increasing information provided by GPS transmitters that 24/7 track turkey movements, incubation dates, and more recently, the acoustic listening devices that can monitor gobbling activity across the landscape the amount and the quality of the information will continue to build.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]An early spring green-up and leaf out often causes many anxious wild turkey hunters wondering about the potential influence on the onset of breeding in wild turkeys. The onset of or pre-breeding season behavior of territorial displays & gobbling activity by gobblers that in some years can be observed as early as January, gets turkey hunters thinking about the upcoming season. This year the abnormally mild winter and potentially an early spring green up, has no doubt increased turkey hunter anxiousness for the upcoming turkey season. In decades past, we have observed wild turkey gobblers displaying and gobbling on our winter trap sites as early as mid-January but generally those displays and other pre-breeding season behaviors will start being more consistent beginning in March. Adult males begin coming into breeding condition far ahead of hens and the increased gobbler activity is has more to do with setting up breeding territories. The breeding development & behavior of hens lags behind that of gobblers and is controlled primarily by increasing day length. In years of severe winter stress, both males and females may have a delayed breeding chronology.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Increasing day-length (photo-period), which remains unchanged each year, is the primary factor influencing the breeding chronology of wild turkeys and most other birds. Prevailing climatic conditions (e.g., temperature, rainfall, lack of snow cover, % cloudiness) will influence the development of vegetation. Early spring green-ups are thought to enhance the physical condition of hens prior to breeding but day-length is dominant factor influencing hormone levels and ovulation progression (egg development) even if the hen is in excellent physical condition. Season dates for turkey hunting are set to assure that the majority of hens, on average, have already bred and are beginning to incubate their eggs. This timing reduces accidental hen shootings during the hunting season and generally intercepts the second peak of gobbling activity when gobblers are vulnerable due to their breeding behavior. The proportion of hens lost to accidental shootings can increase significantly if spring hunting commences prior to the general onset of incubation.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Hunters often remark that they heard more gobbling activity in the weeks prior to the season and then gobbling diminishes either in the days prior to the season or soon after the season begins. Several studies of gobbling activity on hunted and non-hunted areas indicates just 3-4 days of hunting related activity is a primary factor in reducing gobbling activity. Human related activity influencing potential gobbling activity would include pre-season scouting, pre-season video-taping of gobbling turkeys, mushroom hunting, and spring flower observations. [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Indiana has an “open permit” turkey gobbler season allowing anyone with a permit to hunt, the convenience to choose when and where they hunt during the “all-day” shooting hours (1/2 hr before sunrise to sunset) throughout our 19-day season length. The spring season dates for wild turkey hunting were standardized over decades ago as, “... from the first Wednesday after April 20 and continuing for an additional eighteen (18) consecutive days.” The range of opening dates is from April 21 to 27 and easily determined for any year by consulting a calendar. The standardize season dates were set to best capture the “average” wild turkey hen breeding cycle when most hens have initiated incubation. The standardized dates were developed in the early 1980’s when the majority of the turkey hunting range was in southcentral and southwest Indiana. The standardized dates also provided a convenience to our hunting publics, especially those hunters who need to request their leave time 6-12 months prior to taking it. The straightforward, open permit season is easy to understand and appreciated by our hunters who lead busy lives with ever-changing job and family schedules. [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Attached is the 2016 harvest report and the last table is a summary table of Indiana’s Spring Seasons. I have attached a couple more technical articles related to spring breeding and nesting chronology. Indiana like many other Midwestern states has experienced 11 years of consecutive summers of below normal brood production, due to above normal precipitation during the critical early brood period, with the traditionally the best turkey range in south central, southeast, and west central Indiana hit the hardest. The declines are being seen throughout the eastern US but some of the more dramatic declines have occurred in the southeast US where there has been consistently longer integration of turkey hunting in the culture. The abstract by Eriksen touches on this change. [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]As a natural resource agency, we are responsible for safeguarding the resource and as well as providing sustained hunting opportunities in a changing landscape and the annual oscillations (ups & downs) in the wild turkey production. The reduced production has resulted in smaller winter flocks sizes, reduced gobbling counts conducted prior to spring seasons, and a lower proportion of jakes in the spring harvests in recent years (see annual Wildlife Science Report). Hopefully, the exceptionally advanced spring vegetation and warm temperatures will an increase in this year’s summer brood success. We badly need an up-swing in our summer turkey production.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Thank you for your interest.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Sincerely,[/FONT]


[FONT=&amp]Steven E. Backs[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Wildlife Research Biologist [/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Statewide Project Leader (Wild Turkey & Ruffed Grouse Project; Wild Pig Elimination Effort)


[/FONT]I have not yet looked through the attachments, although over time I will. I think much of what he says makes sense.[FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp][/FONT][FONT=&amp][/FONT]

 

[phylodog]

Accidental hen loss is a driving factor for season dates? Give me a break. If you want to reduce accidental hen loss, incentivize people to not shoot hens, how about a $350 fine? It isn't that difficult to tell a hen from a tom or jake, if someone can't figure that out they shouldn't be hunting turkey or they can accept they'll be paying for an expensive lesson in turkey identification.

I like how he reminds us of just how good we have it with our all day hunting.

The hunting dates were standardized decades ago. God forbid we consider a change, certainly nothing else on this planet has changed in the past few decades.

His hunting pressure theory doesn't hold water when we're on a piece of ground with zero hunting pressure on any side of us and we're in the woods the day before the opener and hunt the first five days.

BS excuses in my opinion. If you want fewer birds killed shut down the fall season, only allow one bird every other year or offer tags by lottery drawing. Scheduling the season after they're done being active is beyond stupid.

 

[two70]

Accidental hen loss is a driving factor for season dates? Give me a break. If you want to reduce accidental hen loss, incentivize people to not shoot hens, how about a $350 fine? It isn't that difficult to tell a hen from a tom or jake, if someone can't figure that out they shouldn't be hunting turkey or they can accept they'll be paying for an expensive lesson in turkey identification.

I like how he reminds us of just how good we have it with our all day hunting.

The hunting dates were standardized decades ago. God forbid we consider a change, certainly nothing else on this planet has changed in the past few decades.

His hunting pressure theory doesn't hold water when we're on a piece of ground with zero hunting pressure on any side of us and we're in the woods the day before the opener and hunt the first five days.

BS excuses in my opinion. If you want fewer birds killed shut down the fall season, only allow one bird every other year or offer tags by lottery drawing. Scheduling the season after they're done being active is beyond stupid.

A pissed off bearded hen with feathers puffed out and head lit up can easily be mistaken for a jake if one doesn't take extra time to study the bird before taking a shot. However, I don't really buy the concern for hen mortality bs. If they were really serious about hen mortality they would get serious about trimming the bobcat population back a bit. Also, in my opinion the all day hunting does more harm than good.

 

[phylodog]

At least its confirmation that the season is intentionally set late to reduce hunter success as suspected.

 

[Willie]

"Accidental hen losses"? Then why allow hens to be killed in the fall?

 

[CountryBoy19]

Apparently we need to lease some ground in Lawrence County. I'm just about convinced turkeys are extinct here in Fountain.

If you're at-all serious PM me, maybe we can work something out.

 

[gregr]

More from Backs:

Attached are two independent population monitoring reports for wild turkeys which illustrates the declining trends in Indiana turkey production and population surveys. The gobbling indices often reflect turkey production 2 years prior (2-yr-old gobblers most active gobblers) and also part of the reason we tend view gobbling indices in a 5-yr perspective rather than annually. The gobbling count surveys are conducted during a 2-3 week prior to the youth weekend.

The downward trends in turkey populations is occurring across the eastern states and starting to manifest itself in the Plains’ state as well. The downward trend is something turkey biologists recognized over a decade ago but it was overshadowed by the “hype” over increased harvests resulting from all the ramped up restoration work of the 1980-1990’s. It was also recognized, this would be a bitter pill for a generation of turkey hunters who were used to ever increasing hunter opportunities and success. With higher expectations than could be sustained over time, the shift to the “new normal” would result increased hunter dissatisfaction. A critical factor often overlooked, is the primary turkey restoration era also coincided with the wave of set-aside CRP lands, especially in the Midwest/Plains, resulting in some of the biggest booms in pheasants and quail in the late 1980’s to about 2000,not seen in some areas since the 1930-40’s. As row crop grain prices went up and CRP withdrawals increased in the 2000’s, we subsequently witnessed significant declines in pheasants, quail, and wild turkey production. Pheasant and quail habitat to some degree is generally good turkey brood habitat and perhaps only a blind person cannot see what is happening to habitat conditions across the landscape (albeit they can certainly hear it). As we have learned over time, perhaps more so in recent decades as the land-use changes become more pronounced, even individual pockets of good habitat are influenced by landscape sea around them.

 

[gregr]

Accidental hen loss is a driving factor for season dates? Give me a break. If you want to reduce accidental hen loss, incentivize people to not shoot hens, how about a $350 fine? It isn't that difficult to tell a hen from a tom or jake, if someone can't figure that out they shouldn't be hunting turkey or they can accept they'll be paying for an expensive lesson in turkey identification.

I like how he reminds us of just how good we have it with our all day hunting.

The hunting dates were standardized decades ago. God forbid we consider a change, certainly nothing else on this planet has changed in the past few decades.

His hunting pressure theory doesn't hold water when we're on a piece of ground with zero hunting pressure on any side of us and we're in the woods the day before the opener and hunt the first five days.

BS excuses in my opinion. If you want fewer birds killed shut down the fall season, only allow one bird every other year or offer tags by lottery drawing. Scheduling the season after they're done being active is beyond stupid.

I`m not a wildlife biologist, I`m just a hunter who wants the very best opportunity I can get to kill a turkey, or white-tail deer, or whatever I`m out after. I knew that just like white-tail does going into estrous, that wild turkey hens were triggered for breeding by photoperiod, so that makes sense to me. Past that, I`m only guessing at the rest. I suppose the earlier the weather warms, the sooner the gobblers are ready to breed, much like a white-tail buck, who is ready for breeding and full of testosterone well before the does cycle. But if the hens are triggered by photoperiod, then just like white-tail does, wild turkey hens control the breeding season and timing. I can`t explain why some guys here have killed birds who came running in to their calls, while some like me, haven`t even heard a tom gobble. Even Willi, who is frustrated by this season, had gobblers come to his calls and flog his jake decoy.

I feel that possibly moving opening day back a week, or two, might improve hunting, most seasons, but I don`t know this. I do however, trust the professional biologists at the IDNR, because unlike my greedy perspective of only wanting to kill a bird, they are motivated by science, and likely to a large extent, their professional reputation and integrity. So, unlike some who have voiced their opinions here, I will be out hunting the next two Saturday`s, and if the birds don`t behave like the magazines say they should, or the way they do on film with the pro hunters, I`ll try to figure some other way to kill a gobbler. Be that ambushing one at a dusting or feeding site, or if I can roost one and be fortunate enough to have it descend at daybreak within shooting range. And hey, even if I don`t kill a bird, I`ll be out there well before the sun comes up, I`ll see beautiful sunrises, I`ll spend time afield with one of my best hunting buddies, I`ll have a gun in hand, and I will be hunting. For me, should the day come when the ultimate point of my hunting, and my satisfaction with hunting comes only from the kill, that`s when I`ll stay home.

 

[phylodog]

You're quite obviously free to do and believe what you want. You were provided an answer which quite clearly states that 1) You should consider yourself lucky the biologist God allows you to hunt like he does and 2) the seasons dates are absolutely, 100% set to reduce hunter success by preventing hunters from hunting when the breeding activity is most active. Ambushing turkeys is about as much fun as sitting on a 5 gallon bucket with a cane pole and trying to catch minnows from a puddle. You can toss insults around all you want about tv shows, magazines or whatever but there is a reason spring turkey hunting is enjoyable and that is based entirely on their gobbling and willingness to respond to calls. If you aren't allowed in the woods when that is happening then you're being screwed, period.

Like I've said, I'm all about conservation and management. We don't need a fall season, we don't need to be allowed to kill hens in the fall, season doesn't have to be three weeks long and we don't even necessarily have to be allowed a tag every year but intentionally postponing turkey season until the peak activity is over is complete BS.

 

[Tom Threetoes]

^^^^^^^ Your preaching to the choir brother, you take the gobble out of turkey hunting and you've got nothing left!!

 

[Slonsteady]

First season turkey hunter here, so very limited perspective. I did all the prep work. Turkey calls, training, DNR turkey seminar, licenses, special non toxic gold plated mag shells, scouting, days of time off from work, video on field dressing etc etc, no complaints, just tired feet. Well one complaint, the area I wanted to hunt had a computer draw for the first six days of the season, I missed the deadline by four days. The weather was so bad I doubt if many got a turkey during those first six day anyhow.

Today in the field at sun up. Nothing but crows and blue herrings. Sat called, walked and callled, saw one other hunter about three hours into the hunt, he seemed overly reliant on his phone. I jumped the next ridge to put him behind me and found a promising field to rest. Stopped and listened for a bit then Pulled out my $20.00 Primos box call and did a quick yelp. Thought I heard a gobble, listened some for and sure as shooting a gobble.

 

[Slonsteady]

He was gobbling for another hen, not me. So I put away my call and decided to stalk through the woods. I am a good stalker and have stalked deer, squirrel and even a coyote, I am quiet and deadly. I located him and his hen, and for a new hunter I will say they are hard to tell apart, but I distinctly make out his long beard in the subdued lighting of the woods. I do however need to get me a range finder as distance guesstimates in a rolling wooded area are tricky. After three and a quarter hours of stalking and miles of hiking. My anxiety got the better of me and I let loose at what I thought was 70 yards, but it turned out to be about 90. Shot impacted low, so I plan on returning to that spot later Tom try again or sift for that crazy expensive shot I left on the floor of that woods.

 

[Slonsteady]

Will I try again? Sure as rain, and don't mind if I return empty handed, but I would rather have a turkey next time. I asked DNR last week if they could extend coyote hunting to the week prior to turkey season. My reasoning is to get rid of as many of these predators as possible. I see about as many coyotes as I do deer. Well there is my perspective and I do think DNR is doing a decent job managing the natural resources, except for that pre-season draw dang nabbit.

Be be safe and enjoy the outdoors and others who enjoy it along with you.

 

[gregr]

You're quite obviously free to do and believe what you want. You were provided an answer which quite clearly states that 1) You should consider yourself lucky the biologist God allows you to hunt like he does and 2) the seasons dates are absolutely, 100% set to reduce hunter success by preventing hunters from hunting when the breeding activity is most active. Ambushing turkeys is about as much fun as sitting on a 5 gallon bucket with a cane pole and trying to catch minnows from a puddle. You can toss insults around all you want about tv shows, magazines or whatever but there is a reason spring turkey hunting is enjoyable and that is based entirely on their gobbling and willingness to respond to calls. If you aren't allowed in the woods when that is happening then you're being screwed, period.

Like I've said, I'm all about conservation and management. We don't need a fall season, we don't need to be allowed to kill hens in the fall, season doesn't have to be three weeks long and we don't even necessarily have to be allowed a tag every year but intentionally postponing turkey season until the peak activity is over is complete BS.

I insulted no one. And I recon we`re done here.