Does this explain why we're suddenly hip deep in SoyBois and betas?

[manifest destiny]

This is a response based on binary thinking. Men are not just either manly or effeminate. The science says women select more effeminate men on the pill because of hormonal changes.

I thought the thread was "is this why....soy bois and betas?" The question posed is binary. Yes or no. I fully admit I don't know if there exist a cause and effect between female birth control and changes in personal attraction.

 

[CindyE]

This is a response based on binary thinking. Men are not just either manly or effeminate. The science says women select more effeminate men on the pill because of hormonal changes.

So what are some real-life examples? I wonder if Michelle O was on the pill when she met Barry. My real world experience is that i was on the pill for almost 30 years, and if anything, i am attracted to girly men even less than i was before.

 

[manifest destiny]

Well, Michelle is a dude, so...

 

[Ingomike]

So what are some real-life examples? I wonder if Michelle O was on the pill when she met Barry. My real world experience is that i was on the pill for almost 30 years, and if anything, i am attracted to girly men even less than i was before.

This is not answerable. If the QB is on the pill they typically chose to pass, if not on the pill they typically choose to run, what would have happened if the QB had not been on the pill and chose to run? None of this is observable in our lives. Just like the hormones of a animals in heat are not seen, but males sure react…

 

[jamil]

That is not what the studies (not one, dozens over 70 years) indicate. Are you trolling me here? There is a spectrum of male mates females find attractive. That spectrum is shifted to more effeminate males for those females on birth control pills. To insert a “teeny-bopper” infatuation as evidence that the studies are wrong is silliness.

Now whether this shifts to the soi bois Bug‘s link suggested is something we have not yet discussed. We can’t agree if women choose differently when on the pill.

I don’t have a problem accepting the research that shows women’s preferences change. I’m glad that you’re presenting it as a spectrum. It didn’t seam to me that you were acknowledging that, especially given your frustration. It’s a variable. It’s not the whole story. I’d have to see beter research that establishes a clear link between taking the pill and that resulting in more soybois each generation. And it wasn’t trolling. I have to admit I participated in the because you seemed to take it so personally.

 

[rhamersley]

Well, Michelle is a dude, so...

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Just like the hormones of a animals in heat are not seen, but males sure react…

We sure do. Run! Run away!!

 

[Ingomike]

I don’t have a problem accepting the research that shows women’s preferences change. I’m glad that you’re presenting it as a spectrum. It didn’t seam to me that you were acknowledging that, especially given your frustration. It’s a variable. It’s not the whole story. I’d have to see beter research that establishes a clear link between taking the pill and that resulting in more soybois each generation. And it wasn’t trolling. I have to admit I participated in the because you seemed to take it so personally.

Better research than? Bugs post? A search will give you literally hundreds of thousands links. I posted a couple yesterday also. This phenomenon has been observed in primates, by photo selection, by sweat soaked t-shirt smelling. All have confirmed it happens.

My frustration was this is pretty well known. You guys act like 70 years of research into the matter did not exist and this was some kind of pop psychology.

 

[Twangbanger]

Better research than? Bugs post? A search will give you literally hundreds of thousands links. I posted a couple yesterday also. This phenomenon has been observed in primates, by photo selection, by sweat soaked t-shirt smelling. All have confirmed it happens.

My frustration was this is pretty well known. You guys act like 70 years of research into the matter did not exist and this was some kind of pop psychology.

"...They paid 37 women to smell men's T-shirts before and after going on the pill. Then they compared the women's before- and after-pill ratings of the odors to those of 60 women who did not use oral contraceptives..."

 

[Ingomike]

"...They paid 37 women to smell men's T-shirts before and after going on the pill. Then they compared the women's before- and after-pill ratings of the odors to those of 60 women who did not use oral contraceptives..."

MHC-correlated odour preferences in humans and the use of oral contraceptives

Previous studies in animals and humans show that genes in the major histocompatibility complex (MHC) influence individual odours and that females often prefer odour of MHC-dissimilar males, perhaps to increase offspring heterozygosity or reduce inbreeding. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The above is a link to a study. The top is from 2008, the bottom from 1998…

Studies Explore Love and the Sweaty T-Shirt (Published 1998)

Researchers seeking answer to age-old mystery about what causes romantic attachment between people find that for at least one type of gene, people find difference sexy and sameness boring and that they use their noses to tell which is which; genes in question instruct cells to make proteins of...

www.nytimes.com

 

[jamil]

Better research than? Bugs post? A search will give you literally hundreds of thousands links. I posted a couple yesterday also. This phenomenon has been observed in primates, by photo selection, by sweat soaked t-shirt smelling. All have confirmed it happens.

My frustration was this is pretty well known. You guys act like 70 years of research into the matter did not exist and this was some kind of pop psychology.

Yes. More research than that.

 

[CindyE]

This is not answerable. If the QB is on the pill they typically chose to pass, if not on the pill they typically choose to run, what would have happened if the QB had not been on the pill and chose to run? None of this is observable in our lives. Just like the hormones of a animals in heat are not seen, but males sure react…

Then I guess we'll never know for sure! Men and women both have hormones, and they can have an effect on our behavior, I just don't think the pill is a major factor in choosing mates. My first husband was not a soyboi, and i was not on the pill at that time. 2nd husband is even less soyboi, and I was on the pill when we met, and for many years after.

 

[KLB]

Then I guess we'll never know for sure! Men and women both have hormones, and they can have an effect on our behavior, I just don't think the pill is a major factor in choosing mates. My first husband was not a soyboi, and i was not on the pill at that time. 2nd husband is even less soyboi, and I was on the pill when we met, and for many years after.

I'll say they caused an ex and I to not be together. The pills she took at the time made her kind of psycho. She told me a couple of years later that she had figured it out and changed them.

 

[CindyE]

I'll say they caused an ex and I to not be together. The pills she took at the time made her kind of psycho. She told me a couple of years later that she had figured it out and changed them.

that happened to my sister on the pill and on the shot. She figured it out before it ended in divorce though.

 

[actaeon277]

OMG


This is still going on

 

[rhamersley]

OMG


This is still going on

 

[DoggyDaddy]

That could apply to a LOT of threads on INGO.

 

[rhamersley]

That could apply to a LOT of threads on INGO.

I was on another thread and was tempted to use one of your favorites...

 

[Ingomike]

Then I guess we'll never know for sure! Men and women both have hormones, and they can have an effect on our behavior, I just don't think the pill is a major factor in choosing mates. My first husband was not a soyboi, and i was not on the pill at that time. 2nd husband is even less soyboi, and I was on the pill when we met, and for many years after.

We will never know for sure in an individual sense. A woman on the pill sends signals to males that she is pregnant, males will act differently to those signals, so yes both have hormones reacting to each other. I have no speculation for your personal experiences. Did you check out the links I posted?

 

[Ingomike]

I'll say they caused an ex and I to not be together. The pills she took at the time made her kind of psycho. She told me a couple of years later that she had figured it out and changed them.

Seen that close up.