Dormer

[j706]

You do understand that to our ears that sounds like an argument being made that a murderer specifically hunting cops justifies the police randomly opening fire on people. It further reinforces the rift when we think and expand the scope of our thoughts to take in such things as that it is more illegal for someone to kill your dog than to kill us (i.e., not only are our lives apparently less valuable than your, but also less valuable than your dog's). This entire line of thought reinforces the belief in the apparent role reversal in which the police cease to serve the community but rather become public masters who seek to entrench and expand this new and unacceptable role which is mutually exclusive with a free republic.

You guys are the ones taking about the other shootings. Not me. IMO it has NOTHING at all to do with the conversation I started.

 

[Bunnykid68]

They are fixated on it....


Like Dormer was....

So you are saying Dorner thought the cops believed they are better than the people they are supposed to protect too?

 

[reesez]

Seriously?! A lack of understanding of a homicidal idiot! Not to sound snip pity but you have to be kidding! You are kidding right?

LMAO. Apparently what I have said has been ignored and people insist on only seeing their point of view. Either read what I have said, and his manifesto, understand what I said, OR continue being ignorant of what is real and only see what you want to see and believe. I am not being uncompassionate to the fact that people uninvolved were murdered, simply seeing all sides. I dont feel it needs to go farther than what I have said nor do I like words being twisted or put in my mouth. The man was wrong, but I believe there was more than his wrongs committed here. You choose what you want that to mean. i am done stating my case and defending it. I have not defended him at all, only stated there is more than one perspective here. And that some people would rather judge on few facts than all of them.

 

[sepe]

Last time I checked the crime of killing of an "on duty LEO" has its own special penalty's. So it seems most states do in fact think it is a worse crime. It is a crime against order and decency. It is a crime against the system. That does not diminish the tragedy of anyone else getting killed but it has to be this way.

I'm not stupid, I understand that it is a crime that has special penalties (not 's). The way you've worded some of your posts it seems like you believe he is on top of the superscum mountain even on top of others that have committed the same crime...citizens be damned. This post was the first I've taken that you actually think it is tragic when anyone (innocent victims) get killed.

The special penalties are because of the badge, not because the person behind it is anything more special than the guy behind the counter at the gas station that got shot in a robbery attempt. Every single cop I've met in person that thinks they ARE the badge has also thought they were above the law. I'm happy to say that has been very few as I mostly know really good officers.

 

[IndyDave1776]

You guys are the ones taking about the other shootings. Not me. IMO it has NOTHING at all to do with the conversation I started.

OK, you want to focus exclusively on the acts, motivation and metamorphosis from trained, armed, and dangerous ex-cop to the criminally inept slapstick figure that some people are trying to superimpose over the original image, and isolate this from the larger context of the incident? Fair enough.

We have established that Dorner may or may not have been railroaded for making a formal complaint against another officer for brutality in a department which is no stranger to such malfeasance, but claims this as his rationale for striking out at those he considers to have mistreated him.

We have established that killing the daughter and future son-in-law of the intended target occupies a level of unacceptability above and beyond direct revenge against the actual target.

We have established that the pro-law enforcement bloc on INGO has had a bloodlust (i.e., calling for the most sadistic forms of execution possible) directed at Dorner that I rather doubt would be afforded to anyone doing likewise to non-police. We have established that our (non-police) lives are apparently less valuable than those of police or their dogs.

We have established that Dorner's plans didn't work out nearly so well as the might have ending up with his apparent demise in a fire deliberately set by the surrounding police with the applause of several here both in terms of killing him and specific disregard for the implications of collateral property damage.

While all the above is interesting, it is also pretty much cut and dried. You, as a cop, don't have to worry about things like getting gunned down by Team Blue with no effort whatsoever to identify them just because the police have been threatened. Naturally, our primary concern, especially with Dorner being dead, will drift to surviving the next time and the time after that, but don't worry. It won't affect you.

 

[reesez]

OK, you want to focus exclusively on the acts, motivation and metamorphosis from trained, armed, and dangerous ex-cop to the criminally inept slapstick figure that some people are trying to superimpose over the original image, and isolate this from the larger context of the incident? Fair enough.

We have established that Dorner may or may not have been railroaded for making a formal complaint against another officer for brutality in a department which is no stranger to such malfeasance, but claims this as his rationale for striking out at those he considers to have mistreated him.

We have established that killing the daughter and future son-in-law of the intended target occupies a level of unacceptability above and beyond direct revenge against the actual target.

We have established that the pro-law enforcement bloc on INGO has had a bloodlust (i.e., calling for the most sadistic forms of execution possible) directed at Dorner that I rather doubt would be afforded to anyone doing likewise to non-police. We have established that our (non-police) lives are apparently less valuable than those of police or their dogs.

We have established that Dorner's plans didn't work out nearly so well as the might have ending up with his apparent demise in a fire deliberately set by the surrounding police with the applause of several here both in terms of killing him and specific disregard for the implications of collateral property damage.

While all the above is interesting, it is also pretty much cut and dried. You, as a cop, don't have to worry about things like getting gunned down by Team Blue with no effort whatsoever to identify them just because the police have been threatened. Naturally, our primary concern, especially with Dorner being dead, will drift to surviving the next time and the time after that, but don't worry. It won't affect you.

Is the OP a LEO???

 

[IndyDave1776]

Is the OP a LEO???

Yes.

 

[j706]

LMAO. Apparently what I have said has been ignored and people insist on only seeing their point of view. Either read what I have said, and his manifesto, understand what I said, OR continue being ignorant of what is real and only see what you want to see and believe. I am not being uncompassionate to the fact that people uninvolved were murdered, simply seeing all sides. I dont feel it needs to go farther than what I have said nor do I like words being twisted or put in my mouth. The man was wrong, but I believe there was more than his wrongs committed here. You choose what you want that to mean. i am done stating my case and defending it. I have not defended him at all, only stated there is more than one perspective here. And that some people would rather judge on few facts than all of them.

Hey NP maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I have a simple mind. I had no intention of putting words in your mouth. I ain't mad at ya.

 

[reesez]

Hey NP maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I have a simple mind. I had no intention of putting words in your mouth. I ain't mad at ya.

I may be coming across wrong, no biggie. Thank you for your service, and I understand where you are coming from better now. I just like to see all perspectives is all.

 

[Gniks18]

I mentioned this in another post, but...

is this how the govt will generally respond to internal threats (both real or perceived) from now on?

To me this is the culmination of an ever more aggressive LE stance, the increased persistence to figure out ways to circumvent due process and the court system, and the overall militarization of LE post 9/11.

The idea that police are an occupying force, and not out to "serve and protect" has continued to increase the rift that exists between LEO and the civilian populace.

As someone who has served in the Marine Corps infantry in a legit warzone, we were constrained by rules of engagement that were typically more restrictive than what LE experiences on the street.

Serve and protect...

 

[qwerty]

So you are saying Dorner thought the cops believed they are better than the people they are supposed to protect too?

Just that he was fixated on an issue that apparently festered for years, even while a soldier up until he was discharged on Feb 1st 2013.

 

[j706]

I'm not stupid, I understand that it is a crime that has special penalties (not 's). The way you've worded some of your posts it seems like you believe he is on top of the superscum mountain even on top of others that have committed the same crime...citizens be damned. This post was the first I've taken that you actually think it is tragic when anyone (innocent victims) get killed.

The special penalties are because of the badge, not because the person behind it is anything more special than the guy behind the counter at the gas station that got shot in a robbery attempt. Every single cop I've met in person that thinks they ARE the badge has also thought they were above the law. I'm happy to say that has been very few as I mostly know really good officers.

No I don't think you are stupid at all. It is tragic beyond words when ANYONE gets killed. I have been on these things. I have looked in those no longer seeing eyes, smelled the large amounts of blood, brain matter ect. mixed with the smell of cordite. I don't care for it one bit. It motivates me to really want to find whomever is guilty and fight the urge to do bad things to them. I despise people with a passion that does bad things to others. That is the main reason I work in this occupation.

 

[j706]

OK, you want to focus exclusively on the acts, motivation and metamorphosis from trained, armed, and dangerous ex-cop to the criminally inept slapstick figure that some people are trying to superimpose over the original image, and isolate this from the larger context of the incident? Fair enough.

We have established that Dorner may or may not have been railroaded for making a formal complaint against another officer for brutality in a department which is no stranger to such malfeasance, but claims this as his rationale for striking out at those he considers to have mistreated him.

We have established that killing the daughter and future son-in-law of the intended target occupies a level of unacceptability above and beyond direct revenge against the actual target.

We have established that the pro-law enforcement bloc on INGO has had a bloodlust (i.e., calling for the most sadistic forms of execution possible) directed at Dorner that I rather doubt would be afforded to anyone doing likewise to non-police. We have established that our (non-police) lives are apparently less valuable than those of police or their dogs.

We have established that Dorner's plans didn't work out nearly so well as the might have ending up with his apparent demise in a fire deliberately set by the surrounding police with the applause of several here both in terms of killing him and specific disregard for the implications of collateral property damage.

While all the above is interesting, it is also pretty much cut and dried. You, as a cop, don't have to worry about things like getting gunned down by Team Blue with no effort whatsoever to identify them just because the police have been threatened. Naturally, our primary concern, especially with Dorner being dead, will drift to surviving the next time and the time after that, but don't worry. It won't affect you.

Sorry I don't know how to use the para phrase feature on here but as to your last paragraph...I do in fact worry very much about getting gunned down by team blue. I won't go into details but I have one special person that I have to work with and around. He very much concerns me whenever he has any metallic object in or near his hands. But with all that aside I do get your point on all the above and I can respect that too.

 

[reesez]

No I don't think you are stupid at all. It is tragic beyond words when ANYONE gets killed. I have been on these things. I have looked in those no longer seeing eyes, smelled the large amounts of blood, brain matter ect. mixed with the smell of cordite. I don't care for it one bit. It motivates me to really want to find whomever is guilty and fight the urge to do bad things to them. I despise people with a passion that does bad things to others. That is the main reason I work in this occupation.

I couldnt imagine. Honestly, I wanted to be a LEO since I was a kid, I just dont know how I could take that.

 

[j706]

I mentioned this in another post, but...

is this how the govt will generally respond to internal threats (both real or perceived) from now on?

To me this is the culmination of an ever more aggressive LE stance, the increased persistence to figure out ways to circumvent due process and the court system, and the overall militarization of LE post 9/11.

The idea that police are an occupying force, and not out to "serve and protect" has continued to increase the rift that exists between LEO and the civilian populace.

As someone who has served in the Marine Corps infantry in a legit warzone, we were constrained by rules of engagement that were typically more restrictive than what LE experiences on the street.

Serve and protect...

I don't really think your post is something to be worried with. It does appear that LAPD is hampered with the liberal ideology concerning the less than qualified. I don't know that as fact but it seems to be a widely held believe. IMO when you have a dumbed down requirement system so that those otherwise unqualified people are doing a job that requires some common sense, morals ect. you have a recipe for disaster. It is a atmosphere that breeds corruption, criminal acts, plain stupid acts and decisions.

 

[j706]

I couldnt imagine. Honestly, I wanted to be a LEO since I was a kid, I just dont know how I could take that.

You just suck it up and deal with it. Where I work homicides and stuff are not to common. But in places like Indy I often wonder how the guys do it so often.

 

[Gniks18]

I don't really think your post is something to be worried with. It does appear that LAPD is hampered with the liberal ideology concerning the less than qualified. I don't know that as fact but it seems to be a widely held believe. IMO when you have a dumbed down requirement system so that those otherwise unqualified people are doing a job that requires some common sense, morals ect. you have a recipe for disaster. It is a atmosphere that breeds corruption, criminal acts, plain stupid acts and decisions.

I suppose, but rarely have we seen an incident in which the govt and only the govt was targeted. I mean one guy, a single guy, sparked a nationwide manhunt. Three civilians were shot by police clearly indicating the police failed to establish positive ID. Drones were used to track this guy.

LAPD being hampered with liberal ideology is probably the least of their worries.

To me the issue here has been the overall government response culminating with "burn the motherfuc*ker down" being legitimately recorded on radio channels.

The focus has been simply on killing this guy, not about the three civilians who were shot, the allegations of corruption, or the disproportionate emphasis placed on an act of violence towards a LEO vs. a civilian.

*****y precedents.

 

[UncleMike]

You show a lack of understanding, and a lack of perspective, but to each their own. I am not out to change anyones mind on how they perceive the world.

Actually you have NO understanding of my perspective.
My perception of the World is through the eyes of one who's seen damn near every bad thing that can happen to a human.
And of all that, murder is the worst because it is the intentional killing of a person for nothing more than kicks, jealousy, infantile temper tantrums, desire to have their money or goods, perceived disrespect, and many other equally stupid reasons.
Well...
IMO, that lousy bastard that was roasted in that cabin got exactly what he deserved for his stupidity.

 

[reesez]

Actually you have NO understanding of my perspective.
My perception of the World is through the eyes of one who's seen damn near every bad thing that can happen to a human.
And of all that, murder is the worst because it is the intentional killing of a person for nothing more than kicks, jealousy, infantile temper tantrums, desire to have their money or goods, perceived disrespect, and many other equally stupid reasons.
Well...
IMO, that lousy bastard that was roasted in that cabin got exactly what he deserved for his stupidity.

Do tell me more. Are you a LEO?

 

[Bunnykid68]

Do tell me more. Are you a LEO?

Hey, I am not a LEO fan but I agree with them, he got what he deserved. The only problem I have with the whole thing is I think those folks out there never intended to take him alive no more than Dorner planned on being taken alive. Guess that kinda evens things out.