DOW to 20,000 today?!!

[rhino]

So, I'm guessing you're not going to [STRIKE]place your bet on[/STRIKE] 'invest' in cryptocurrency

I don't know what that is!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I like it when the market does well, but I can't stop thinking about 1999 and 2008.

I'd love another 1999, 2008. I stocked away shares like a squirrel on speed.

I can thrive and survive another 2008 but it has to happen soon.

 

[rhino]

I'd love another 1999, 2008. I stocked away shares like a squirrel on speed.

I can thrive and survive another 2008 but it has to happen soon.

If you had the resources to do that, taking advantage of the low prices was a boon. That's a benefit of being young and having an income stream.

Some people did not have those options at the time and lost nearly everything.

 

[hoosierdoc]

T

Some people did not have those options at the time and lost nearly everything.

only if they sold.

In 2009 it was essentially what it was in 2002. Then by 2012 it was back above it's recent 2007 peak. And it's more than tripled since the recent low.

no reason to lose anything. Hold the shares. Sure there some RMD, but those folks invested back when the DOW was 1000

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Mccain, what a goober. I'm most excited about AMT going away

But who will keep us informed about government conspiracies??? Oh wait... nevermind.

 

[BugI02]

I like it when the market does well, but I can't stop thinking about 1999 and 2008.

So, I'm guessing you're not going to [STRIKE]place your bet on[/STRIKE] 'invest' in cryptocurrency

1999 DotCom bubble goes 'pow'

2008 Housing market bubble goes 'pow'

2017 Cryptocurrency bubble 'tick tick tick'

JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon took a shot at bitcoin, saying the cryptocurrency "is a fraud."


"It's just not a real thing, eventually it will be closed," Dimon said Tuesday at the Delivering Alpha conference presented by CNBC and Institutional Investor.

"It's worse than tulip bulbs. It won't end well. Someone is going to get killed," Dimon said at a banking industry conference organized by Barclays. "Currencies have legal support. It will blow up."


Dimon also said he'd "fire in a second" any JPMorgan trader who was trading bitcoin, noting two reasons: "It's against our rules and they are stupid."

"It's different this time" lolz

 

[hoosierdoc]

Jamie Dimon is terrified. You can't get a commission trading a bitcoin.

 

[ATM]

But who will keep us informed about government conspiracies??? Oh wait... nevermind.

 

[BugI02]

Jamie Dimon is terrified. You can't get a commission trading a bitcoin.

6 months from now, if you are standing tall atop "Mount Bitcoin" I will be among the first to profusely congratulate your acumen

If instead, you lie crumpled at the bottom of "Bitcoin Crater" after the auger, I'll endeavor not to gloat


View attachment 61346

 

[spec4]

One of the basics of investing is not to invest in something you don't understand. I don't understand bitcoin. I do understand US currency.

 

[hoosierdoc]

6 months from now, if you are standing tall atop "Mount Bitcoin" I will be among the first to profusely congratulate your acumen

If instead, you lie crumpled at the bottom of "Bitcoin Crater" after the auger, I'll endeavor not to gloat

i don't own any, but I can see a man terrified of losing his grip on the world by controlling currency transactions

 

[rhino]

T

only if they sold.

In 2009 it was essentially what it was in 2002. Then by 2012 it was back above it's recent 2007 peak. And it's more than tripled since the recent low.

no reason to lose anything. Hold the shares. Sure there some RMD, but those folks invested back when the DOW was 1000

It's not that simple. I failed to mention and you probably failed to consider that I was talking specifically about retired people with no significant source of income other than withdrawals from their IRAs.

A young guy like you with a decent income can afford to leave his investments intact until they recover. Consider being retired, having the net value of your life savings at about 10% of what it was, and then you have to make withdrawals for living expenses. It's tough to recover from that, especially when you're hit in 2008 again.

Watching that happen encouraged me to diversify as much as possible and in the event I'm ever able to retire (unlikely), move everything to as low risk as possible.

 

[hoosierdoc]

No, I talked about RMD (required minimum distribution). Their basis was ay lower than 7500 or whatever it dipped to. And again, it rebounded within a few years. And tripled in a few more.

wait.. why do you mention 10% of what it was? The market did not drop 90%

It's not that simple. I failed to mention and you probably failed to consider that I was talking specifically about retired people with no significant source of income other than withdrawals from their IRAs.

A young guy like you with a decent income can afford to leave his investments intact until they recover. Consider being retired, having the net value of your life savings at about 10% of what it was, and then you have to make withdrawals for living expenses. It's tough to recover from that, especially when you're hit in 2008 again.

Watching that happen encouraged me to diversify as much as possible and in the event I'm ever able to retire (unlikely), move everything to as low risk as possible.

 

[Kutnupe14]

One of the basics of investing is not to invest in something you don't understand. I don't understand bitcoin. I do understand US currency.

If you understand US currency, you understand Bitcoin. Just apply the opposite, lol. What is US currency? It's a regularly manipulated fiat currency based in trust of the govt, that outside face to face interactions requires a substantial fee to transfer in most instances.

 

[BugI02]

It's not that simple. I failed to mention and you probably failed to consider that I was talking specifically about retired people with no significant source of income other than withdrawals from their IRAs.

A young guy like you with a decent income can afford to leave his investments intact until they recover. Consider being retired, having the net value of your life savings at about 10% of what it was, and then you have to make withdrawals for living expenses. It's tough to recover from that, especially when you're hit in 2008 again.

Watching that happen encouraged me to diversify as much as possible and in the event I'm ever able to retire (unlikely), move everything to as low risk as possible.

What you speak of implies too risky behavior for someone in retirement, IMO. If your hypothetical retirees were invested in stable dividend paying corporations, with no history of a fluctuating dividend, and could live off the dividend income they would have no need to worry about the valuation of the underlying stock. $95 cents per share is still $.95 per share whether the shares are $40 or $20. With such an investment profile you would scarcely notice a bear market and such income producing stocks are among the earliest to recover value in down times

Investment in high quality long bonds, while not having been worth the effort since a year or two after 'quantitative easing', still exist for those of us who kept a small percentage of our funds invested there from the time we hit middle age. These investments are not paying 17% annualized like the S&P is currently, but also have very little downside risk income in a correction or bear market

IMO the traditional advice to be in less volatile investments as you approach retirement is the way to go. The people who have not saved enough, in many cases because of overspending on keep up with the joneses crap, are the ones who feel compelled to stay in volatile investments up to and sometimes beyond retirement

 

[Phase2]

1999 DotCom bubble goes 'pow'

2008 Housing market bubble goes 'pow'

2017 Cryptocurrency bubble 'tick tick tick'

JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon took a shot at bitcoin, saying the cryptocurrency "is a fraud."

"It's just not a real thing, eventually it will be closed," Dimon said Tuesday at the Delivering Alpha conference presented by CNBC and Institutional Investor.
...
"It's worse than tulip bulbs. It won't end well. Someone is going to get killed," Dimon said at a banking industry conference organized by Barclays. "Currencies have legal support. It will blow up."

Dimon also said he'd "fire in a second" any JPMorgan trader who was trading bitcoin, noting two reasons: "It's against our rules and they are stupid."

"It's different this time" lolz

I understand the point you are making, but you could hardly have chosen a worse advocate for the anti-Bitcoin side. The man and his company are serial financial criminals who only want a money system that they can manipulate for profit. Unfortunately, they are in a power position that only results in periodic fines, rather than jail time. You know, just the cost of doing business...

• Rigging foreign exchange currency exchange rates
• Failure to report Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme
• Manipulating electricity prices
• Money Laundering
• Housing bubble related crimes- foreclosure abuses, robo-signing, misrepresentations, etc.
• Foreign bribery
• Mortgage discrimination
• Manipulating inter-bank loan rates
• and on and on and on...

Oh, and for the last quote above, this came out just six days later: JPMorgan trading bitcoin for clients despite Dimon’s ‘fraud’ rant

Dimon is worried about a world where banks are largely obsolete, where you are your own bank. Where you can store/send/receive money directly with another person or corporation and banks don't get to collect fees and the money is never on bank ledgers and under their control. Where they can't collect $20-$50 fees for remittances to other countries or take 3-5 business days to process payments. Where loans and "smart contracts" will exist directly between people/companies. The financial future will be radically different than what we are familiar with today

I'm a big believer in Bitcoin and (some) other cryptocurrencies because I've become educated about them, not due to rooting for a speculative bet. I am very much advocating education as cryptocurrencies are the future of money. Governments and Central Banks agree and are looking at how to create their own cryptocurrencies at some point.

• Chinese Government is Developing its Own Cryptocurrency
• Estonia wants to launch its own government-backed cryptocurrency called 'estcoin'
• Governments Are Testing Their Own Cryptocurrencies
• India already working to make Bitcoin obsolete by launching its own government-backed crypto currency
• Dubai Government Launches First Official State Cryptocurrency

Children born today have no memory of finding books at a library using a card catalog, a world without the internet, a world without nearly continuous connectivity, a world where the people you know are restricted to a small geographical area. At some point in the not-too-distant future, children will no longer have a memory of using paper money and money being exclusively created and controlled by corrupt governments and institutions. You don't have to jump in feet first, but you should understand what is coming.

One of the basics of investing is not to invest in something you don't understand. I don't understand bitcoin. I do understand US currency.

It is still very early in the development of this financial technology field and much like dot-coms, there will be some winners (think Google/Amazon/Facebook) and many losers. For this reason, it is not unreasonable to stay out of crypto investments if you are uncomfortable with them. Things will be turbulent and many early investors will get hurt. However, it is a good idea to at least understand a little of how it works and why people see value in them.

Here is a very good YouTube educational series that describes the technology behind cryptos in very simple terms. You can really dive much deeper if you have the interest, but this is a good starting point. I recommend at least the first three episodes in this series. The latter three are specifically about a Bitcoin competitor that I like called Dash. Dash School

 

[olhorseman]

It's not that simple. I failed to mention and you probably failed to consider that I was talking specifically about retired people with no significant source of income other than withdrawals from their IRAs.

A young guy like you with a decent income can afford to leave his investments intact until they recover. Consider being retired, having the net value of your life savings at about 10% of what it was, and then you have to make withdrawals for living expenses. It's tough to recover from that, especially when you're hit in 2008 again.

Watching that happen encouraged me to diversify as much as possible and in the event I'm ever able to retire (unlikely), move everything to as low risk as possible.

The day before the market tanked in 2008 I sold all the equities in our 401k's, ira's, and stock accounts and left the money in cash. We lost a minimal amount due to our sales not getting in until the end of the day of the first drop while many people lost so much more. We got back in the market soon after it hit bottom and have done very well in the last 9 years.

Now that we have retired 80% of our finances are in bonds and only about 20% in stocks. This week I will be selling everything and again leaving it in cash. I think the stock market is way over valued and is due for a 20%-30% correction. I see other political factors that could drive even greater stock and bond losses.

 

[Phase2]

The day before the market tanked in 2008 I sold all the equities in our 401k's, ira's, and stock accounts and left the money in cash. We lost a minimal amount due to our sales not getting in until the end of the day of the first drop while many people lost so much more. We got back in the market soon after it hit bottom and have done very well in the last 9 years.

Congratulations. You are one of the few.

 

[HoughMade]

All was quiet at the NYSE today. My wife and I took the opportunity to take stock.

View attachment 61391

 

[hoosierdoc]

All was quiet at the NYSE today. My wife and I took the opportunity to take stock.

Wait, they don't really keep the stock there, do they? Can you grab some without anyone seeing you?