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Dressing up for Church carry
- Thread starter cedartop
- Start date
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Ha, ha, I used to carry my Glock-27 in a De Santis "Apache" ankle holster, one day my SIL said I was sitting there with my left leg crossed and I was ankle scanning everyone to my right, ha!
So even unconsciously we can have our moments.
Most parishioners don't know I am armed, God and I do though, I hope to never have to use it.
By the way I have one of these coming from GunBroker (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/875776267) for a Glock-19, but I wont be going to church with it, which makes me think that maybe as discussed a day planner disguised as a Bible book bag would be nice.
So even unconsciously we can have our moments.
Most parishioners don't know I am armed, God and I do though, I hope to never have to use it.
By the way I have one of these coming from GunBroker (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/875776267) for a Glock-19, but I wont be going to church with it, which makes me think that maybe as discussed a day planner disguised as a Bible book bag would be nice.
I am not calling out anyone here.
The OP is head of security and for whatever reason the leadership of the Church have decided that carrying openly is no longer allowed.
The main considerations in my not so humble opinion are,
If you read his preferences he is not interested in pocket, ankle, OB, deep concealment or mouse guns. He also has just purchased trousers that fit well, are not suited to IWB carry and is not wanting to buy new pants with a larger waist.
Again, this is just to refresh memories or for folk that have not taken the time to read the entire thread.
The OP is head of security and for whatever reason the leadership of the Church have decided that carrying openly is no longer allowed.
The main considerations in my not so humble opinion are,
- Ease of access
- Stopping power
If you read his preferences he is not interested in pocket, ankle, OB, deep concealment or mouse guns. He also has just purchased trousers that fit well, are not suited to IWB carry and is not wanting to buy new pants with a larger waist.
Again, this is just to refresh memories or for folk that have not taken the time to read the entire thread.
Thank you. Reading comprehension is alive. One thing to clarify that you couldn't have known. I am in MI. Prior to this there was no legal carry allowed in our church concealed or otherwise. The pastor and the board of Elders out forth a plan to give permission to those who want it the ability to carry in Church per the state law exemption allowed. The church voters approved it. We give written permission to those who request it.
Liberty Sanders
Master
Ok, I've been packing a gun now, first as a lawman and now as a retired country squire, for over forty-five years. There is no method of carry that I have not used.
In the warmer months I wear a nice button-down shirt over either a nice t-shirt or a Henley. The shirt is worn open. When things get cooler, I wear a shirt tucked in, and over that a nice vest, also worn open, or a sport coat. These methods allow me to carry any EDC or combination of same, including a pair of S&W N frames or double shoulder holsters.
Any of these methods allows a belt holster or a shoulder holster. If the OP is looking for a method that will allow his heeled status to be undetected when he is manhandled by a church lady I think he is out of luck. All carry methods involve compromise.
In the warmer months I wear a nice button-down shirt over either a nice t-shirt or a Henley. The shirt is worn open. When things get cooler, I wear a shirt tucked in, and over that a nice vest, also worn open, or a sport coat. These methods allow me to carry any EDC or combination of same, including a pair of S&W N frames or double shoulder holsters.
Any of these methods allows a belt holster or a shoulder holster. If the OP is looking for a method that will allow his heeled status to be undetected when he is manhandled by a church lady I think he is out of luck. All carry methods involve compromise.
Head to your local Goodwill store and scope out sport coats or blazers. There'll probably be way more in your size than there would be in mine.
A few slightly different jackets will work with MANY styles and colors of shirts, pants, and ties. Even one good looking navy blue sport coat will probably work 75% of the time - but people will catch on pretty easily that you only have the one if you wear it every week.
I'm FAR from fashionable, but a navy one, a tan one, and some kind of brownish houndstooth plaid pattern (super tight pattern, not typical plaid with the huge squares) should be enough to spruce up the wardrobe considerably.
And then you can find a tailor that can put weights in your strong side hem to help keep the coat down. You probably know local detectives you can ask who they may have tailor their clothes? Or, heck, call a few places and explain to them your needs. If they balk - find another tailor. Many tailors are used to working with gun-carrying type people.
Best to you!
A few slightly different jackets will work with MANY styles and colors of shirts, pants, and ties. Even one good looking navy blue sport coat will probably work 75% of the time - but people will catch on pretty easily that you only have the one if you wear it every week.
I'm FAR from fashionable, but a navy one, a tan one, and some kind of brownish houndstooth plaid pattern (super tight pattern, not typical plaid with the huge squares) should be enough to spruce up the wardrobe considerably.
And then you can find a tailor that can put weights in your strong side hem to help keep the coat down. You probably know local detectives you can ask who they may have tailor their clothes? Or, heck, call a few places and explain to them your needs. If they balk - find another tailor. Many tailors are used to working with gun-carrying type people.
Best to you!
Thanks we're Lutheran so there's not much chance of getting felt up we don't do a whole lot of hugging.
Thanks. if I was serious I would just follow Craig Douglas and Jeff Gonzalez and do what they do, but I don't want to spend that kind of money.
If pocket carry, ankle carry, belly band, appendix carry and IWB carry are all out, it's looking like OWB with a sport coat is the winner. I used to carry that way on the job, and I'd just say that a good sturdy dedicated CCW gun belt and a pancake style holster (I prefer Kydex) would be your best bet for the least printing.
Depending on body type, that G19 is probably gonna print at least a little, given the square slide and sharp cornered magazine plate that sticks out the bottom of the grip. I always found an M&P easier to conceal more easily, due to the flush mag and rounded corners of the slide, but YMMV.
With the right holster, your little P365 should nearly disappear under a sport coat, but being someone actually responsible for security, I'd opt for the G19 or similar.
Depending on body type, that G19 is probably gonna print at least a little, given the square slide and sharp cornered magazine plate that sticks out the bottom of the grip. I always found an M&P easier to conceal more easily, due to the flush mag and rounded corners of the slide, but YMMV.
With the right holster, your little P365 should nearly disappear under a sport coat, but being someone actually responsible for security, I'd opt for the G19 or similar.
I carry in a OWB, too. I've noticed that better than half of the folks at church wearing a jacket are doing it for the same reason.
Go to Goodwill, SA, etc. That's the place to find jackets, cheap. You do have to look at brands - skip the store bands, grab the Brooks Brothers. At least in Fort Wayne, there's a small boutique store that sells quality jackets cheap - today I'm wearing a lightweight cotton jacket I got for $99. Other days, I wear a classic Brooks Brothers navy blazer I found on Ebay for $25.
As for suits - nobody wears suits but lawyers and funeral directors.
EDIT: Scooped.
Tuning in to see what cedartop settles on. 
I carry at 3:00, mags at 6:00. A sturdy shirt covers it all up nicely and I can easily make the 1.5 second draw. Without thought, front sight can be on threat for an accurate shot.
I've not wore a shirt tucked in for many years though. Much less a blazer.
Not a regular church goer. Weddings and funerals find me in a square tailed short sleeve collored shirt or sweater in the winter.
I carry at 3:00, mags at 6:00. A sturdy shirt covers it all up nicely and I can easily make the 1.5 second draw. Without thought, front sight can be on threat for an accurate shot.
I've not wore a shirt tucked in for many years though. Much less a blazer.
Not a regular church goer. Weddings and funerals find me in a square tailed short sleeve collored shirt or sweater in the winter.
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Haha, I wear shorts and sandals often, with a Sig P226 or 1911 and am in the 'elected officers' gang so those Methodists referenced above have nothing on us. I'm usually untucked but can dress up and tuck in with the same IWB holsters for any of those that I'd be wearing anyway. The only thing that would show are the belt clips and people are so non-observant I just don't care to that level.
My overall reaction to your post is that you are making it harder than what it needs to be, IMHO. You just now passed some kind of "concealed carry policy" at your church, but you may be the only guy carrying. So, 1. the choices should be up to you, within reason; 2. I would assume that guns/security has not been addressed up to this point but now all of a sudden when it is there are all these rules in place that will hinder the success of the security teams' intended purpose. There have been no guns there up to this point, but now we need so many rules that it is almost more trouble than it is worth? I think you should be able to carry the way that's best for you and your success. I also truly believe that no one will notice you carrying, unless of course this has been publicized and the naysayers will be looking.
I certainly don't mean for this to come across as harsh or rude, but don't know how to say it any other way. You know you are free to disagree with any or all of my points, and I am free to not understand your side, but I truly do wish that you will find the best way for you to help protect your flock.
Editing to add for the reading comprehension police; I wear the same pants whether IWB carrying or not, it's about body type, if you're a solid chunk of muscle then ya maybe you need bigger pants, but if you are average or "better" then I say you gotta try it to rule it out.
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singlestacksig
Master
consider a good tuckable holster..
i carry a sig in a hign noon holster often just under a dress shirt. shirt is able to be tucked into the belt line.
i carry a sig in a hign noon holster often just under a dress shirt. shirt is able to be tucked into the belt line.
Clay Pigeon
Shooter
Haha, I wear shorts and sandals often, with a Sig P226 or 1911 and am in the 'elected officers' gang so those Methodists referenced above have nothing on us. I'm usually untucked but can dress up and tuck in with the same IWB holsters for any of those that I'd be wearing anyway. The only thing that would show are the belt clips and people are so non-observant I just don't care to that level.
Ha, I don't wear sandals period. let alone to church. (yes, I know Jesus probably wore them.)
My overall reaction to your post is that you are making it harder than what it needs to be, IMHO. You just now passed some kind of "concealed carry policy" at your church, but you may be the only guy carrying. So, 1. the choices should be up to you, within reason; 2. I would assume that guns/security has not been addressed up to this point but now all of a sudden when it is there are all these rules in place that will hinder the success of the security teams' intended purpose. There have been no guns there up to this point, but now we need so many rules that it is almost more trouble than it is worth? I think you should be able to carry the way that's best for you and your success. I also truly believe that no one will notice you carrying, unless of course this has been publicized and the naysayers will be looking.
I will try to make this coherent and still answer your comments. I won't be the only guy carrying, but for now might be the only guy carrying on the actual "emergency team". The carry policy was put in place mostly to keep people from having to do it illegally. Something about breaking the law while in church doesn't sit right with some (myself included) There really are no rules other than we need a copy of their CPL and they have to pass the MCOLES qualification. Yes I know that will bother some of the muh rights people here, but remember carrying in church is illegal in MI unless granted specific permission from the governing body. So I feel it is still better than not. If someone wants to be an armed member of my team, they will need to be a lot better than just what they need to carry in church. As in harder shooting challenges, attending training, mindset, etc.. I doubt if I will get many takers. The other rules you refer to I am not sure what you mean. Wardrobe rules arent really rules they are just tradition and I am big on tradition. There may be a few naysayers but I am not too concerned about that as the policy was voted on and passed unanimously. (Among the voters who actually come to the meetings which as you probably know is a small percentage)
I certainly don't mean for this to come across as harsh or rude, but don't know how to say it any other way. You know you are free to disagree with any or all of my points, and I am free to not understand your side, but I truly do wish that you will find the best way for you to help protect your flock.
Not rude at all. I appreciate the conversation.
Editing to add for the reading comprehension police; I wear the same pants whether IWB carrying or not, it's about body type, if you're a solid chunk of muscle then ya maybe you need bigger pants, but if you are average or "better" then I say you gotta try it to rule it out.
Had to wait until I got to a real computer to type this out. Yes, making things difficult is sorta what I do. No, I am not an engineer. I pretty much knew what I was going to do just wanted some feedback from people who may be in the same situation. I appreciate most of the comments in the thread. As for the stupid ones or the ones who are just trying to be wise guys, I am reminded why I seldom stray far from the Training and Tactics subforum.
It boggles the mind...
Wait,wait! You quoted yourself and answered yourself !
That's like dividing by zero !
Clay Pigeon
Shooter
LOL.... hey.... Why yes he did... Jesus opened carried...
From bottom to top;
Well I may be a smart alec in the tactics and training sub from time to time so apologies in advance.
I suppose that people that make things harder have a place in this world.
The "other rules" I was referring to were the wardrobe "rules" and I understand the tradition aspect. I know of one of our attendees who appendix carries and no one would ever guess it, I'm not clear if you're abandoning that method because of slow draw or concealablity? My thinking is, to do what you know, and can do best, and my impression was that you normally AIWB.
I understand more about MI law now.
Our journey into church security has been slow and careful. You certainly do want to weed out the cowboys or hotheads. The biggest thing we have discovered is that church security is really not all that much about the gun, it is about the AED, who to call when, following through on walkarounds and door checks, etc. But since there is a gun involved there is vetting involved. Not all on our team are carrying, or even gun guys, many just have skill set that lends itself to security and care.
A side note somewhat related to tradition, one of the things I like best about our church is that the guy in the $1000 suit is worshipping or working right along side the fully decked out biker dude who is next to the little old lady who is next to the sandal wearing farmer with a severe work-boot tan line and no one is really even thinking about how anyone else looks. The man that founded this church just had a way of attracting many different types of people and I enjoy that diversity. That can lead to many different views on security and guns specifically so it is important to conceal. Seeing a gun can really harsh some peoples chill.
I'm assuming you're shopping for OWB holsters? I tend to like high ride with a fair amount of cant for OWB.
