DUTY TO RETREAT...is it an issue?

[rhino]

I might be willing to retreat, but I do not have the ability.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You'll need an APRA request to find out.

Great, just what I need.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So when does Kirk start following brotherbill3 around?

Start?

 

[Expat]

So when does Kirk start following brotherbill3 around?

Start?

That is quite a caravan going down the road with your local goon squad following along behind you as you follow Bill.

 

[brotherbill3]

Start?

That is quite a caravan going down the road with your local goon squad following along behind you as you follow Bill.

:looks over shoulder continuously:

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

To the guys advocating retreat, i have to wonder if you council your wives and daughters to submit themselves to rape rather than risk injury? Both things seem to me to be a case of giving up some liberty to gain a measure of safety. We know the rest of that quote, don't we?

 

[Amishman44]

If you know that walking or running away will save your life, you probably ought to do that regardless of the law.

A formal "duty to retreat" is not part of Indiana law. It is however, prudent to consider retreating when possible if it is the safer course of action.

I concur in that avoiding the confrontation in the first place, or egressing the immediate area if the opportunity exists, are both prudent responses rather than be involved in a self-defense shooting....if it can be avoided!

Also, valuing human life is also important....

However, if the situation presents itself, I follow two basic rules of engagement....

1. If the threat of imminent grave bodily harm and/or death exists, to myself, a loved one, or an unknown 3rd party exists, in Indiana, under the Use of Force law, the ability to defend oneself, without a duty to retreat, exists.

2. Defend/protect what you love!

IMO, the use of a weapon is a LAST RESORT, in defending oneself... whereas the use of the human brain + sensory input (see + recognize + react/respond to a threat) is more important than the weapon itself as one can see + recognize early and respond accordingly (create space/distance, reposition oneself, etc.) to a recognized threat.

Lastly, if one does have to resort to the use of appropriate force in order to stop a viable / valid threat, only used sufficient force to stop the threat. When the threat is no longer a threat, force should cease as well!

 

[T.Lex]

To the guys advocating retreat, i have to wonder if you council your wives and daughters to submit themselves to rape rather than risk injury? Both things seem to me to be a case of giving up some liberty to gain a measure of safety. We know the rest of that quote, don't we?

Wait.

INGO advocating retreat?

That doesn't sound right.

I think what people are saying is that it is important to not only appear reasonable, but to BE reasonable. And tactical.

If I hear a bump in the night and go find a bad guy, I'm better off "retreating" to the spot where I have the tactical advantage (and where any family members who are in the house will also be waiting). If dude wants to come find me, then he's made another poor choice.

If when I'm checking it out, he decides to escalate into a direct attack at that moment, then game on.

I would be surprised if there are very many INGOers who depart from that basic philosophy.

 

[Thor]

Taking cover and tactical repositioning do not equal retreating.

Retreating is moving away from the threat in an attempt to disengage, like running into another room and shutting the door, or trying to run away down the street and hoping they can't force their way in or catch you...then only as a last act defending yourself, your loved ones or your property. That doesn't work for me so much. Taking cover and tactical repositioning I'm good with.

 

[T.Lex]

Taking cover and tactical repositioning do not equal retreating.

As a matter of prioritization, I think this is true, even if it means letting some guy take every TV, computer, iPad and whatever, as long as the safety of me and mine is secured. Besides, if dudes can do it before the police get there, then so be it.

I guess the one area where there could be reasonable disagreement is in a public location, to what extent do I get involved in an altercation. (In the early days of the internet, there was a set of scenarios called The Red Zone that created some controversy with one of these conversations.)

I will not judge someone who lives to fight another day, rather than risk putting their family through the pain of a funeral. I'm not sure what I would do in a situation where, if I am not directly threatened, there is an opportunity to retreat. I'm responsible for my safety and that of my family. If others choose not to take responsibility for their own safety, that's on them.

But, that isn't really the scenario described in the OP's question.

 

[Captaincrunk]

Taking cover and tactical repositioning do not equal retreating.

Retreating is moving away from the threat in an attempt to disengage, like running into another room and shutting the door, or trying to run away down the street and hoping they can't force their way in or catch you...then only as a last act defending yourself, your loved ones or your property. That doesn't work for me so much. Taking cover and tactical repositioning I'm good with.

If your grandmother was having some sort of dementia episode and came at you with a cleaver, would you blast her full of rounds?

How about my grandmother coming at you?

My grandfather in a wheelchair who you could easily outrun?

 

[T.Lex]

How about my grandmother coming at you?

My grandfather in a wheelchair who you could easily outrun?

Why would your grandmother do that? She's always been... affectionate to me before.

Well, your grandfather, too, for that matter.

 

[chemteach]

If you can keep yourself and everyone you're presently responsible for safe and unshot, while at the same time not having to shoot someone else, I'd say great. You still should report it, though. However, if conditions dictate that deadly force was your only reasonable action, then, I hope you are able to clearly articulate (by that, I mean get a lawyer) your choices.

 

[Thor]

If your grandmother was having some sort of dementia episode and came at you with a cleaver, would you blast her full of rounds?

How about my grandmother coming at you?

My grandfather in a wheelchair who you could easily outrun?

 

[chuckp]

Take at least one step back when in fear of your life. More is better. That will help you when the attorneys/prosecutor crawl out of the woodwork.

chuck

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I believe in retreating so much that I am not even going to show up to my gunfight.

 

[Thor]

Kirk has a good intelligence service...forewarned is forearmed.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Hackathorn's First Law--Don't Go Where You Don't Belong--resolves many gunfights before they begin.

 

[PistolPastor]

I believe in retreating so much that I am not even going to show up to my gunfight.

Best advice...

 

[Benp]

If someone is desperate enough to break into our house then they will soon be desperate and angry because we don't have anything they would want. Also, if they aren't careful then they will probably hurt themselves on legos and My Little Ponies if they don't watch where they are walking.